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Post by thelasttubewarrior on Jan 28, 2018 13:40:24 GMT -5
Greg, I AM enjoying the video. In fact, the Marquee I currently have hung is 100 percent stock and I still greatly enjoy the picture.
I don't even have my MP modded VIM and neck cards in it. No slam against those cards, I just decided to go back to stock so I can have a point of reference to look at when I do anything else to my test projector.
I guess that the truth is that I'm a bit less critical of several aspects of image quality than some people are. But sharpness and focus, THAT is where I may be more critical than most. And that is where I concentrate my own efforts to make improvements. I leave every other area of research to others. This one is mine. It's not going to bother me if I haven't performed an 11 point calibration to D6500 and modded every circuit to the Nth degree to reduce noise. I don't even care if I'm not making 11 Ft-L brightness, in fact I think it's crazy to try to push it up to 17. Tube life is a function of drive level. They'll burn fast at 17 Ft-L.
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Post by wolfman on Jan 28, 2018 13:40:37 GMT -5
I wrote moome an e-mail asking if he has stopped the works for a moome V4 and he has. He wonders what features we'd like on it? Why not post your top 5 nifty features, and maybe delete 3D to make it cheaper, and easier, and I'll forward any interest. I get that the demand must be small now but for us who still want another level we pay more than the usual V3, I guess.
Isn't there a chip or whatever that would make it better and faster, greater headroom. You're the gifted guys you tell him.
My spellchecker wont work today, but thanks.
And lastly: Why can't I open up a new cut? nothing happens when browsing the folders. I was going to call this something like moome card V4. Moderator can moe this as he pleases. Or leave it too of course.
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Post by gjaky on Jan 28, 2018 13:46:42 GMT -5
If yoke raster centering was so important, why isn't it included in any projector other than the Marquee? The Thomson focus yoke has that feature because the magnetic design is so horrible, it NEEDS it so there's a reasonable chance of getting the raster centered despite the serious distortions to the magnetic toroid that results from trying to do something as stupid as build a ring magnet using eight bar magnets between two rings as a cost saving measure. G90s don't have a raster centering issue. Nor do 1292s, or Barco 1208s, 1209s, 808s, or 909s. So why do you think that "feature" is necessary, but only on a Marquee? On the Thomson yoke it's crutch engineering to compensate for a bad design. The NEC PGs had two magnet rings at the back of the deflection yoke those served as mechanical raster centering, this was of course backed up by full electronic centering as well. Now the instability of the Marquee electronic centering is more of an electronic design flaw than anything else, that can be aided if needed (whatever yokes are used)
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Post by thelasttubewarrior on Jan 28, 2018 13:57:08 GMT -5
Centering rings are commonly found on the necks of most direct view TV tubes. But they also almost never have digital or even electronic convergence/centering systems.
Hey, about the Moome card development. I'd like it if the card was not locked to standard resolution settings. It may just be too complex and too much to ask but I'd like to have the ability to display resolutions that are above 1080p via HDMI. This would likely require a PC source with a high end video card that also can deliver custom higher resolutions. I think that part is available.
Yeah, 4K is out of the realm of possibility for CRT but...how about 3K? Or even 2.5K?
Via analog I can generate and display QXGA (2048x1536) and I even have a way to display 2048x2048, but only as a test pattern.
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Post by stridsvognen on Jan 28, 2018 17:43:22 GMT -5
The moome card will accept any resolution you can trow at it as long its under the max pixel clock, wich is not a hard limit, normaly between 200-220Mhz.
4K or whatever in between is totaly unrealistic for CRT, everyone that has setup a CRT to run 200Mhz knows how much more dificoult it gets every time you increase the bandwidth a bit, and pushing the bandwidth over the videochains capability reduces the resolution, so its like kicking yourself in the ass.
So Chris i think you should start buying a Radiance pro, and figure out how 4K works, WCG HDR10/ DV and explain how your thinking it will be worth the time on a 120-150Mhz capable projector, and if you run VDC neckboards u better keep it below 150Mhz or they will overheat and self destruct.
We have a 200mhz capable moome with a simple filter change, and it will do 12 bit, sure more headroome would be nice, but doubt it would be worth moomes time, and it will ever be good buisness. The biggest bottleneck is the marquee videochain.
I can run 330Mhz from the test generator, and it will display a decently looking image, but far from resolving the signal, on a standard CRT projector you might get better results running something like 720-960P 60hz instead, it will be sharper and easier to controle.
And still the mecanical raster centering is needet to generate less heat, and prevent convergence drift and shaky unstable image. Specially if you care about image quality/ no raster ringing.
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Post by thelasttubewarrior on Jan 28, 2018 18:47:26 GMT -5
I'm by no means opposed to buying a Radiance Pro. It's just a matter of affordability.
Again, I've noticed that natural raster centering when using G90 magnetics in a Marquee ends up being quite good, enough that you would not need to do much raster movement via central convergence. I've been saying this all along but either you're not listening or you have chosen not to believe me.
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Post by Admin on Jan 28, 2018 18:54:03 GMT -5
So Kurt. Tell us what you would do for someone who had a stock 9500 and you were to transform it into your ultimate machine.
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Post by thelasttubewarrior on Jan 29, 2018 0:16:31 GMT -5
I finally found an online source that actually has the last connectors IN STOCK that I need to make up my adapter cables, and everything has been ordered. So, rather soon now, I'll really be able to do the full G90 magnetics test and KNOW how well it truly works. Looking forward to it.
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Post by wolfman on Jan 29, 2018 1:51:37 GMT -5
Sounds great. Can't wait to hear more about your G90 Project.
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Post by stridsvognen on Jan 29, 2018 1:56:33 GMT -5
I'm by no means opposed to buying a Radiance Pro. It's just a matter of affordability. Again, I've noticed that natural raster centering when using G90 magnetics in a Marquee ends up being quite good, enough that you would not need to do much raster movement via central convergence. I've been saying this all along but either you're not listening or you have chosen not to believe me. Thats exactely the point, it cant be centered, to push out the raster ringing you need to shift the raster to the left seen on screen, and use the phase shift to move the active image as far to the right as possible without clipping the edge, and the bigger your H total is the less the active image is in comparison to the raster size. Is the raster ringing not a image quality parameter to you.?
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Post by stridsvognen on Jan 29, 2018 2:30:31 GMT -5
So Kurt. Tell us what you would do for someone who had a stock 9500 and you were to transform it into your ultimate machine. Ultimate is not realy easy, but ill say as a basic you would like a early Ultra machine, or preferable from before 2003, then you should have a good standard machine with good quality boards. You should remove the 3 resistor line mod on the vim, and the peakingtrimpods. Then you make sure glycol is pure, most marquee focus issues is glycol related, or pushing to high pixelclock will make it softer, specially on the sides.. Gjaky helped locate 3 resistors on the FGM that alows to change the range of the side focus, its a good simple mod to improve range on the sides running high pixel clock, but have to be used gently, as it will trow off focus in other zones, so its a compromise, but overall a small improvement in focus uniformity. I have not had time to finish testing Gjakys mods, but hopfully will before to long, and im pretty confident they will give a video chain improvement. Generally you need to be carefull with Marquee mods, most change the imge, but mostly it gives some and take away more. So start with a good helthy Marquee with lcp tubes, prefered 2/4 pole flaremagnets, avoid the 6 pole ring it often generate more confusinon than it helps. Set flare magnets using a source generated patter, and it will take loads of time ofsetting the raster, and setting the flaremagnets, but it is ine of the most critical marquee setup procedures, and see to the horizontal deflection yoke is aligned so no skew is needet on any of the colors. If you keep your bandwith down at a level that is easy on the Marquee you get a awsome image from a standard projector with verry little mod work..
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Post by gjaky on Jan 29, 2018 3:26:26 GMT -5
I'm by no means opposed to buying a Radiance Pro. It's just a matter of affordability. Again, I've noticed that natural raster centering when using G90 magnetics in a Marquee ends up being quite good, enough that you would not need to do much raster movement via central convergence. I've been saying this all along but either you're not listening or you have chosen not to believe me. Thats exactely the point, it cant be centered, to push out the raster ringing you need to shift the raster to the left seen on screen, and use the phase shift to move the active image as far to the right as possible without clipping the edge, and the bigger your H total is the less the active image is in comparison to the raster size. Is the raster ringing not a image quality parameter to you.? If untouched, yes ringing will be an issue. But because of the different yoke inductances, altering the HDM's resonant behaviour will be needed anyway, and thus the final end result is unpredictible yet.
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Post by stridsvognen on Jan 29, 2018 3:35:54 GMT -5
Thats exactely the point, it cant be centered, to push out the raster ringing you need to shift the raster to the left seen on screen, and use the phase shift to move the active image as far to the right as possible without clipping the edge, and the bigger your H total is the less the active image is in comparison to the raster size. Is the raster ringing not a image quality parameter to you.? If untouched, yes ringing will be an issue. But because of the different yoke inductances, altering the HDM's resonant behaviour will be needed anyway, and thus the final end result is unpredictible yet. Would sure be nice if there is a fix, but as is, and always has been with the Marquee we will need to work with what we have and get the best of it. fixing the ringing would save bandwidth wich will ultimately also sharpen up the image, 180Mhz to 195Mhz is adding quite some to the setup challenge.
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Post by barclay66 on Jan 29, 2018 3:43:14 GMT -5
Hi,
By the way, the Marquee does indeed have the controls for moving the raster vertically and horizontally without using the convergence controls. It's just that unfortunately they aren't included in the geometry menu (where they would make much more sense to be). In order to use these controls, You have to access the Guided Mechanical Setup menu:
To access and use the Guided Mechanical Setup menu, turn on the projector [POWER] then press [HELP]. The Help menu is displayed. Next press [2] to select Guided Mechanical Setup. The first page of the guide will be displayed on the projection screen. When using the guide, press [HELP] to display the next page, press [RECALL] to display the previous page. When complete, press [EXIT] to end Help.
Regards, barclay66
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Post by stridsvognen on Jan 29, 2018 4:20:01 GMT -5
Hi, By the way, the Marquee does indeed have the controls for moving the raster vertically and horizontally without using the convergence controls. It's just that unfortunately they aren't included in the geometry menu (where they would make much more sense to be). In order to use these controls, You have to access the Guided Mechanical Setup menu: To access and use the Guided Mechanical Setup menu, turn on the projector [POWER] then press [HELP]. The Help menu is displayed. Next press [2] to select Guided Mechanical Setup. The first page of the guide will be displayed on the projection screen. When using the guide, press [HELP] to display the next page, press [RECALL] to display the previous page. When complete, press [EXIT] to end Help. Regards, barclay66 Curious whats the difference, when using the static horizontal convergence the HDM gets much hotter, so i would think its actually the same thing, i always thought the static convergence was a deflection timing.
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