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Post by Deleted on Nov 19, 2015 19:41:45 GMT -5
Yes Hulio good point and explanation. I was thinking we should check if the temp option is in the menus. It is in my genuine v2.13 cinemax. I think it is not in my 2.20 3.12 i will check.
I tested on the 919's.
Hulio did you make the fancontroll board?
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Post by Casethecorvetteman on Nov 19, 2015 20:56:45 GMT -5
Youre still obsessed with that board arent you...
Tell me true man? Why is it when i had 909 v3.12 software my fans ran fast with and without the so called fan control board???
Why is it my CineMAX v2.0 ran them slow with and without the fan controller board???
Why did flashing software to Cine 9 v2.21 make the fans run slow and quiet with or without the so called fan controller board???
909 v2.21 is NOT THE SAME as Cine 9 v2.21...
Honestly... How many more times???
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Post by mastertech on Nov 19, 2015 21:04:39 GMT -5
909 v2.21 is NOT THE SAME as Cine 9 v2.21... Was this indicated somewhere before? Did I miss it?
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Post by mastertech on Nov 19, 2015 22:39:20 GMT -5
He means ground, Mastertech. Thanks. Now it makes sense.
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Post by mastertech on Nov 19, 2015 23:08:20 GMT -5
I almost forgot. Here the schematics of the old and new style controllers:
It looks like there is added filtering on the supply rails and some of the source voltages have been changed around.
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Post by Casethecorvetteman on Nov 20, 2015 0:20:40 GMT -5
909 v2.21 is NOT THE SAME as Cine 9 v2.21... Was this indicated somewhere before? Did I miss it? Yeah it was, many moons ago. Im not sure if it was this forum though. Id have thought it would be pretty obvious to any Cine 9/909 user though, the menus look different for a start, so its plain to see the software is clearly not the same. The version number indicates the version of the software for whatever designation, Cine 9 or 909, Cine 9 software has a few extra home user features that 909 software does not, as well as running the fans slower and the scan limit is 130kHz, instead of 180kHz for the 909, which no one here could ever make use of anyway, and theyre only kidding themselves if they think they will. All i did to make mine run quiet was ditch the 909 software for the Cine 9 software. With or without the boards Redfox is refering to, the fan speed followed the software designation only. The CineMAX software ran the fans slow and quiet even without the boards, and the 909 software ran them fast, regardless of the boards being there or not. Any version of Cine 9 software should provide the same result. Considering there was no functionality improvement for 909 v3.12 over Cine 9 v2.21, its a real no brainer in my opinion, but if anyone can give a really good reason as to why you should want 909 software on there instead of Cine 9, by all means, explain it to me. No one has put forward anything valid yet.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 20, 2015 3:56:25 GMT -5
909 v2.21 is NOT THE SAME as Cine 9 v2.21... Was this indicated somewhere before? Did I miss it? Hulio just said the opposite so this is something we have to look into. It seems to explain some things. There is also one more thing I have to mention. Curt sya in a number of thread that he and Eisemann had bad experience flashing controllers where the process would halfway stop. Also some people in this thread have dead controllers they must have died some way. Curt did not want to update software at all when I spoke to him. What do you think. With the EEPROM programmer we might have a failsave.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 20, 2015 6:23:50 GMT -5
Testing time See if options in menu's pop up when fancontroll gets plugged etc. Tray of Cinemax, splitpack 919 and 4 trays of 919's.
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Post by dummyload on Nov 20, 2015 6:55:32 GMT -5
Yes i meant ground of course. Don't know if it's useful but here is some findings. While measuring ,by coincidence i found out what jumper w3 actually does. Whithout jumper w3 (normal operation) at power up (mains on) data is only retrieved from memorie I6 also when starting the projector up ,I7 is never selected so no data is used from I7 so far (i did not test all mode ,just stand by and start up) So I6 is the location of the main data . When placing jumper w3 (emergency modus) at power up (mains on) data is only retrieved from memorie I7 so now I7 is selected an not I6 as before,(start up is not possible in this modus) So I7 contains data (program) to communicate with pc flash program and reload I6 with a flash file. If I7 memorie is only used for that i'm not shure yet , and i don't think so because in the read out from a board with cinemax software I7 and a board with soes 919 software I7 , the last contains a lot more data .
Needless to say it ,but don't change w3 with mains on. (when mains is on the core of the controller is always powered ,also if projector is in stand by ,so it is always running)
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Post by Deleted on Nov 20, 2015 8:37:42 GMT -5
Ok I tested Cinemax software version 2.13 with and without the Fancontroll in the tray. With the Fancontroll you get the option Temperature that is not there without the board. Bad luck made that the chip on my fancontroll board seems bad. I get -1C and once I2C error. How about the noise. No difference in this setting but I remember having the tempsensor error before. I would not know as I seldom check the temperature but I would notice that the Max was noisy. Than I would check the temp and yes often a reboot fixed this. Often I had to wait a minute after shut down to fix the sensor. I will order some new sensor chips to continue this. Edit: might be some caps as later it worked again. So I know from memory that the fancontroll board makes the Max more quiet. Not much but noticable. I could hear it direct from the start and after some time but I worked hard on getting the Max quiet with cork etc. So I listened closely. Also the software is probable the same on the Seos and Max but the extra option only appears when the sensor is there.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 20, 2015 8:42:16 GMT -5
Oh by the way I heared the same noise with v2.13 and v3.12. Perhaps 3.12 is a bit lower in noise seems to spin a little slower. With the fancontroll board Temperature diagnostics appears in the menu on 3.12 too. Ok now the sensor works again. At startup there is not much difference in noise.
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Post by dummyload on Nov 20, 2015 8:56:44 GMT -5
Thanks for the schematics Hulio. (how do you always get that info) When i first time started to look at controller boards (about a year ago) i had three of them all with different failures , but beside that all of them had a commun issue the core supplies +5vp and 3.3v had a excessive ripple (noise) one around 8%. For a processor board it should be around 1% for reliable operation . Same boards drew 0,8A others 1,3A the last where of course the worst regarding ripple, so i found out that the differents in current came from the different brand of the seven rams used by the altera chip. Does your board uses the K6R4016V1 (samsung) ram's then the current wil be around 1.3A, if you're board uses the AS7C34098 (alliance) ram's then the current wil be around 0,8A and that's a big differents also for the +9v power supply it also lowers the heat up of the altera and rams. (maybe there are boardsbwith other brand rams ,i don't know of ?) I did the test with one of the boards to know sure and replaced all seven rams and then the current was down to 0,8A. (don't want to do that again) That was a big step in lowering the ripple of the supply but i was not at 1% yet ,i had to replace the cap at I67 (3,3v) it was dried out , then aded a cap on I68 (+5vp) because there was no cap there and there should be one , this can cause oscillations and there is no suppression of the ripple coming from I67 (new schematics confirms this) . Now the output at the suplies was at spec but was still out on the altera chip ,adding caps to the +3.3v on the altera did the job. Suppose this is the pcb design at fault . So the altera is from all the core components the one that 's makes the most noise. My latest board is late revision and these problems seem to be solved (new schematic) This is only a discription of wat i experienced with the supplies on some boards. Until now i managed to repair three board out of four ,the latest is a real challenge for me. (no clue yet,)
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Post by Deleted on Nov 20, 2015 9:44:13 GMT -5
Let me sumarise my little tests.
V2.13 Cinemax -temperature option appears with fanboard -at startup not much difference in noise with or without fanboard
V3.12 Seos -temperature option appears with fanboard -at startup not much difference in noise with or without fanboard
V3.12 seems less noisy than V2.13 with and without the fanboard.
But V3.12 focusboard does not have the jumper to switch between 12V and Fan. Setting the jumper on 12V with V2.13 makes it much more noisy.
I remember that after more time and or higher resolutions the fanboard would make a difference.
One other observation. The Cinemax has both fans spin in oposite directions in the tray but also has a metal peace on the focusboard that the seos does not have.
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Post by hulio on Nov 20, 2015 12:07:27 GMT -5
Hulio did you make the fancontroll board?
No, i'm not that skilled when it comes to electronics. I just duplicate the cooling circuit of CineMax/Cine 9 with two original R763706 boards and the metal baffles. It is called in fact "laminaire airflow". Same cooling but with less air-turbulence. A lot of noise is not created by the spinning fans but the air passing the back-grille with high speed. If someone need the drawings of the metal work, let me know and i'll post them here.
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Post by hulio on Nov 20, 2015 12:13:28 GMT -5
Was this indicated somewhere before? Did I miss it? Hulio just said the opposite so this is something we have to look into. It seems to explain some things.
I never said that Fox. I even said that there are specific Cine 9 soft. versions. When i mensioned " the newer the better " i was reffering to the PCB revision.
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