Onkyo No Sound HDMI DTS Repair Fix Tutorial

tjmotter
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Posts: 384

Onkyo No Sound HDMI DTS Repair Fix Tutorial Nov 19, 2020 22:03:36 GMT -5

Quote

Post by tjmotter on Nov 19, 2020 22:03:36 GMT -5

On the 705, I recall reading about an issue with the firmware that caused bang noise. These suckers are a little strange because they don't have an ethernet or USB port so the firmware update consists of burning a CD with a special Onkyo image, connecting an optical port up to a CD player and then pressing a key combination to start the firmware update and finally, hitting the "play" button on the CD player. Essentially, it uses the digital element of the optical to stream the data from the CD to the receiver. I have never done it but there are some posts out there that describe it. I may have a copy of the files around somewhere.

With respect to a reflow, I mask everything off with Kapton tape first. Next, I cut a piece of tin foil to fit the area and cut out a section in the center that is larger than the chip. I then tape the tin foil on top of the original layer of kapton tape to seal the tin foil. This contains the heat to just the area you are working on and keeps parts from moving around once the solder goes molten.

with this protection in place, I squeeze some no-clean flux around the outside edges of the DSP. I then place the board on my board warmer and bring the bottom side temperature up to about 90-100 degrees celsius using an oven thermometer/probe to monitor the temp on the bottom. Once heated up (a couple of minutes), I set the heat wand on my soldering station to 435 degrees and heat the chip for about 90-120 seconds. The newer boards seem to flow at about 90 seconds but it can take up to 2 minutes (120 seconds) for an older board like yours to flow. At all times, I keep my eye (and set a temperature alarm) on the oven probe that is tracking the temp on the bottom. I set the alarm for 160 degrees and if it gets to this temp, I immediately shut all the heat down. Solder will start to melt at about 180 degrees and the last thing you want is to have parts falling off the bottom.

HTH
Todd

svniceguy
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Posts: 10

Onkyo No Sound HDMI DTS Repair Fix Tutorial Nov 20, 2020 18:03:37 GMT -5

Quote

Post by svniceguy on Nov 20, 2020 18:03:37 GMT -5

Nov 19, 2020 22:03:36 GMT -5 tjmotter said:

On the 705, I recall reading about an issue with the firmware that caused bang noise. These suckers are a little strange because they don't have an ethernet or USB port so the firmware update consists of burning a CD with a special Onkyo image, connecting an optical port up to a CD player and then pressing a key combination to start the firmware update and finally, hitting the "play" button on the CD player. Essentially, it uses the digital element of the optical to stream the data from the CD to the receiver. I have never done it but there are some posts out there that describe it. I may have a copy of the files around somewhere.

With respect to a reflow, I mask everything off with Kapton tape first. Next, I cut a piece of tin foil to fit the area and cut out a section in the center that is larger than the chip. I then tape the tin foil on top of the original layer of kapton tape to seal the tin foil. This contains the heat to just the area you are working on and keeps parts from moving around once the solder goes molten.

with this protection in place, I squeeze some no-clean flux around the outside edges of the DSP. I then place the board on my board warmer and bring the bottom side temperature up to about 90-100 degrees celsius using an oven thermometer/probe to monitor the temp on the bottom. Once heated up (a couple of minutes), I set the heat wand on my soldering station to 435 degrees and heat the chip for about 90-120 seconds. The newer boards seem to flow at about 90 seconds but it can take up to 2 minutes (120 seconds) for an older board like yours to flow. At all times, I keep my eye (and set a temperature alarm) on the oven probe that is tracking the temp on the bottom. I set the alarm for 160 degrees and if it gets to this temp, I immediately shut all the heat down. Solder will start to melt at about 180 degrees and the last thing you want is to have parts falling off the bottom.

HTH
Todd

On the 705 I did do the fw updt so I believe it has the latest firmware. However, if you find your version I will be interested if my version is indeed the latest. Thx. I will also attempt another reflow on it since, iirc, I read somewhere that someone solved this "gunshot" problem doing a reflow. Maybe I'm just kidding myself and conflating the 2 issues

Soldering station @ 435...I presume that's Fahrenheit? I have a heat gun that is duo at 700/1000 F (350/538 C). Can I presume the lower temp setting is sufficient if I keep an eye on it?

I have tried one reflow on both the 705 and 708. I used an IR temp reader but am unsure of its accuracy (claims it's only a couple degrees max error

I do not have the sophisticated setup you have so I placed a small piece of solder on the top of each BGA chip and heated the chip until the solder melted, but did not hold the heat much longer than that due to the higher low temp of the heat gun. It's possible the solder melted due to the direct flow of the heat gun. However, it's not clear how much of the heat made it underneath the chip. My protection was very similar to that of justgreg who started this thread (foil tape covering nearby components, a heat tunnel/chimney to focus the heat towards under the chip). I will try again using your suggestions (no chimney, but still protect nearby components.

I have seen YouTube vids of people who used more controllable heat guns and had no protection on surrounding devices (kind of a daring move), and they had reasonable amounts of success.

Thx again for the help. If any other insights come to mind, I'm eager to learn. I expect I'll soon know whether I have a fully operational receiver or need to reconfig into a 7-channel amp

I could be working with a bad chip on the 708, but until I can get some kind of positive or negative results, I won't know for sure.

Last Edit: Nov 20, 2020 18:06:30 GMT -5 by svniceguy

tjmotter
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Posts: 384

Onkyo No Sound HDMI DTS Repair Fix Tutorial Nov 21, 2020 20:58:13 GMT -5

Quote

Post by tjmotter on Nov 21, 2020 20:58:13 GMT -5

435 Celsius. Also, solder on top isn't really a good indicator. I tried that once and the solder was molten LONG before the solder on the bottom released (I was pulling the chip off and thought this might be a good indicator but it wasn't).

In my experience, the people on Youtube will have the same problem again within short order. There really is no shortcuts on this. What those people have done is essentially re-warp the board so that they are getting enough contact for it to startup but after some time, the board will flex again and that contact will break.

I am often asked if a heatsink will help an the answer is NO! The chip doesn't flex, the board does. There are two voltage regulators on the bottom board that are used to power the op-amps for the DAC. Onkyo always puts them in the same spot which is directly below the DSP section of the HDMI board. Those suckers get very hot and that heat all rises and settles under the HDMI board causing it to flex. It is this flex, coupled with the fact that Silver based solder cracks before it bends, that causes the failures. As I said, there are no shortcuts here, you have to get those solderballs to go molten. I have fixed 3 NR708's and a bunch of NR3007's (same rev of the chip) and those boards can be very difficult. On one I hit it at 435 degrees Celsius for over 2 1/2 minutes before I could get it off.

HTH
Todd

svniceguy
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Onkyo No Sound HDMI DTS Repair Fix Tutorial Nov 23, 2020 17:13:43 GMT -5 nodols likes this

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Post by svniceguy on Nov 23, 2020 17:13:43 GMT -5

Thx Todd. Appreciate the continued help and support.

I discovered abt the solder on top. It melted long before I thought the BGA solder would melt, even tho I continued heating for another 60 secs or so. So, 435 C? Must be a lot of heat loss to get temp under the BGA up to the 180 C. That might explain the lack of success I had. The heat gun I used had 750/1000 F settings and I set it for 750 F. Either too low of temp or not long enough time to heat. Guess I'll have to go to the 1000 F setting (and make sure the chip doesn't get moved by the stronger air flow or turn a dark brown

As for the hot regulators underneath...would it help to put in a small fan (or some kind of airflow redirection) to redistribute the heat elsewhere (like towards an opening in the chassis/cover)? Maybe get really adventurous and redesign those regulator circuits to reduce the heat dissipation....maybe not...

Cheers....Steph

Last Edit: Nov 23, 2020 17:29:58 GMT -5 by svniceguy

tjmotter
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Posts: 384

Onkyo No Sound HDMI DTS Repair Fix Tutorial Nov 23, 2020 21:40:12 GMT -5

Quote

Post by tjmotter on Nov 23, 2020 21:40:12 GMT -5

Nov 23, 2020 17:13:43 GMT -5 svniceguy said:

Thx Todd. Appreciate the continued help and support.

I discovered abt the solder on top. It melted long before I thought the BGA solder would melt, even tho I continued heating for another 60 secs or so. So, 435 C? Must be a lot of heat loss to get temp under the BGA up to the 180 C. That might explain the lack of success I had. The heat gun I used had 750/1000 F settings and I set it for 750 F. Either too low of temp or not long enough time to heat. Guess I'll have to go to the 1000 F setting (and make sure the chip doesn't get moved by the stronger air flow or turn a dark brown

As for the hot regulators underneath...would it help to put in a small fan (or some kind of airflow redirection) to redistribute the heat elsewhere (like towards an opening in the chassis/cover)? Maybe get really adventurous and redesign those regulator circuits to reduce the heat dissipation....maybe not...

Cheers....Steph

Something to move that heat would definitely help. They already have a decent sized heat sink so moving that air is the best option.

Page 47 of this document outlines the heat requirements: www.ti.com/lit/ug/spru811a/spru811a.pdf

Note that it states a maximum temp of 260 degrees Celsius but that is the rating for the top of the chip. The challenge I had was that heat output of the wand doesn't necessarily translate directly to the temperature at the top of the chip. There are a couple of variables here such as

1) how close your wand is to the top of chip - I tend to keep it about an inch above so the temp I use helps compensate for the heat dissipation at that distance

2) while you are doing this, the air is circulating around which reduces the temp at the top

3) my heat wand is about 25% of the size of the chip so I have to move it in a circular direction around the top of the chip which also affects the heat dissipation

When I first started doing this I had my wife hold an IR Thermometer to try to measure the temp on the top of the chip which is how I ended up at 435 degrees. You will need to account for these variables when you try this.

This document also shows that there are multiple stages for the temp. The preheat (from the bottom) accounts for the startup period. I always try to keep the actual wand time within the 90 seconds (+-30 seconds) + 30-60 seconds they show for the maximum total time. The way I manage this is to address the initial 60 seconds (90 minus 30) by moving my wand more quickly in the circular motion. I then move it a little closer and slow down my circular motion for the next 30 seconds to get to the peak temp. At this point, I try using my suction attachment to lift the chip. If it doesn't move easily, I hit it for another 30 seconds (total time is 60+60=120 seconds). If this doesn't work (like on a 708 or a 3007/3008) I shut everything down, let it cool off for at least 30 minutes then try again going to the maximum pre-time of 90 seconds and then the maximum max time of 60 seconds for a total of 2 min 30sec.

This approach has always worked for me but with a different system, you mileage may vary. Rather than using the higher heat setting you may just want to extend the pre-heat time to the full 90 seconds and then move the wand a little closer for another 60 seconds.

HTH

Todd

svniceguy
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Posts: 10

Onkyo No Sound HDMI DTS Repair Fix Tutorial Nov 24, 2020 1:07:25 GMT -5

Quote

Post by svniceguy on Nov 24, 2020 1:07:25 GMT -5

Nov 23, 2020 21:40:12 GMT -5 tjmotter said:

Nov 23, 2020 17:13:43 GMT -5 svniceguy said:

Thx Todd. Appreciate the continued help and support.

I discovered abt the solder on top. It melted long before I thought the BGA solder would melt, even tho I continued heating for another 60 secs or so. So, 435 C? Must be a lot of heat loss to get temp under the BGA up to the 180 C. That might explain the lack of success I had. The heat gun I used had 750/1000 F settings and I set it for 750 F. Either too low of temp or not long enough time to heat. Guess I'll have to go to the 1000 F setting (and make sure the chip doesn't get moved by the stronger air flow or turn a dark brown

As for the hot regulators underneath...would it help to put in a small fan (or some kind of airflow redirection) to redistribute the heat elsewhere (like towards an opening in the chassis/cover)? Maybe get really adventurous and redesign those regulator circuits to reduce the heat dissipation....maybe not...

Cheers....Steph

Something to move that heat would definitely help. They already have a decent sized heat sink so moving that air is the best option.

Page 47 of this document outlines the heat requirements: www.ti.com/lit/ug/spru811a/spru811a.pdf

Note that it states a maximum temp of 260 degrees Celsius but that is the rating for the top of the chip. The challenge I had was that heat output of the wand doesn't necessarily translate directly to the temperature at the top of the chip. There are a couple of variables here such as

1) how close your wand is to the top of chip - I tend to keep it about an inch above so the temp I use helps compensate for the heat dissipation at that distance

2) while you are doing this, the air is circulating around which reduces the temp at the top

3) my heat wand is about 25% of the size of the chip so I have to move it in a circular direction around the top of the chip which also affects the heat dissipation

When I first started doing this I had my wife hold an IR Thermometer to try to measure the temp on the top of the chip which is how I ended up at 435 degrees. You will need to account for these variables when you try this.

This document also shows that there are multiple stages for the temp. The preheat (from the bottom) accounts for the startup period. I always try to keep the actual wand time within the 90 seconds (+-30 seconds) + 30-60 seconds they show for the maximum total time. The way I manage this is to address the initial 60 seconds (90 minus 30) by moving my wand more quickly in the circular motion. I then move it a little closer and slow down my circular motion for the next 30 seconds to get to the peak temp. At this point, I try using my suction attachment to lift the chip. If it doesn't move easily, I hit it for another 30 seconds (total time is 60+60=120 seconds). If this doesn't work (like on a 708 or a 3007/3008) I shut everything down, let it cool off for at least 30 minutes then try again going to the maximum pre-time of 90 seconds and then the maximum max time of 60 seconds for a total of 2 min 30sec.

This approach has always worked for me but with a different system, you mileage may vary. Rather than using the higher heat setting you may just want to extend the pre-heat time to the full 90 seconds and then move the wand a little closer for another 60 seconds.

HTH

Todd

I'll chk out the TI link. Thx!

Boy, it is a complicated process. My plan is to not necessarily remove the chip. Just to heat it enough to resolder any loose connections. As for preheating from the bottom....don't remember which receiver, but 1 of them had a load of SMD parts mounted directly on the other side of the PCB from the BGA chip. If I do try to preheat from the bottom, I'll have to be very careful not to blow off any parts.

I ordered up a 2nd heat gun where the low temp is 532 F (~278 C). Is that too low to be useful, or would I just need to reflow longer? Or should I stick with the other gun which has the low of 750 F/400 C.

Any obvious indicators that will let me know the solder is melting/has melted under the BGA chip? I have the No Clean flux. Someone mentioned in a video that one indicator is that the flux starts to bubble. Not sure how valid that would be. The first time I did it the flux looked like it evaporated (certainly on top of the chip) but never seemed to bubble.

Of course, this all presumes the chip is OK and it *is* just a reflow issue

Continued appreciation on this...Steph

Last Edit: Nov 24, 2020 9:25:25 GMT -5 by svniceguy

tjmotter
Senior Member

Posts: 384

Onkyo No Sound HDMI DTS Repair Fix Tutorial Nov 24, 2020 20:57:14 GMT -5

Quote

Post by tjmotter on Nov 24, 2020 20:57:14 GMT -5

Nov 24, 2020 1:07:25 GMT -5 svniceguy said:

I'll chk out the TI link. Thx!

Boy, it is a complicated process. My plan is to not necessarily remove the chip. Just to heat it enough to resolder any loose connections. As for preheating from the bottom....don't remember which receiver, but 1 of them had a load of SMD parts mounted directly on the other side of the PCB from the BGA chip. If I do try to preheat from the bottom, I'll have to be very careful not to blow off any parts.

I ordered up a 2nd heat gun where the low temp is 532 F (~278 C). Is that too low to be useful, or would I just need to reflow longer? Or should I stick with the other gun which has the low of 750 F/400 C.

Any obvious indicators that will let me know the solder is melting/has melted under the BGA chip? I have the No Clean flux. Someone mentioned in a video that one indicator is that the flux starts to bubble. Not sure how valid that would be. The first time I did it the flux looked like it evaporated (certainly on top of the chip) but never seemed to bubble.

Of course, this all presumes the chip is OK and it *is* just a reflow issue

Continued appreciation on this...Steph

The 300Mhz chips seem to last pretty well. Definitely a lot longer than the 400Mhz chips which tend to die after 18,000 hours so I would suspect a cracked solderball.

I have done this over 50 times and have yet to see anything obvious to indicate that the solder has melted. I recognize that you are not planning to remove it but the heat requirements are the same because you still have to get those balls to go molten.

With the resources/tools you have on hand, I would probably try to go with higher heat for a shorter time.

The bottom side will definitely get hot particularly under that BGA which is why I place the probe from an oven temp sensor under there. I set the alarm for 150 degrees and if the alarm goes off, I shut the heat down. This ensures that the bottom side solder doesn't melt and drop parts.

The big variable on this type of job is the firmware. The DSP uses a NAND chip for firmware and sets it up so that it emulates a hard drive (like a computer). Since this device acts like a hard drive, the DSP writes and reads to it. In about 30% of the repairs I have done I found that when the DSP failed, it did so in the middle of a "write" command which caused the NAND to become corrupted. This can be fixed but it is a royal PITA and requires a programmer as well as a copy of the code.

HTH

Todd

svniceguy
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Posts: 10

Onkyo No Sound HDMI DTS Repair Fix Tutorial Nov 25, 2020 16:52:25 GMT -5

Quote

Post by svniceguy on Nov 25, 2020 16:52:25 GMT -5

Nov 24, 2020 20:57:14 GMT -5 tjmotter said:

Nov 24, 2020 1:07:25 GMT -5 svniceguy said:

I'll chk out the TI link. Thx!

Boy, it is a complicated process. My plan is to not necessarily remove the chip. Just to heat it enough to resolder any loose connections. As for preheating from the bottom....don't remember which receiver, but 1 of them had a load of SMD parts mounted directly on the other side of the PCB from the BGA chip. If I do try to preheat from the bottom, I'll have to be very careful not to blow off any parts.

I ordered up a 2nd heat gun where the low temp is 532 F (~278 C). Is that too low to be useful, or would I just need to reflow longer? Or should I stick with the other gun which has the low of 750 F/400 C.

Any obvious indicators that will let me know the solder is melting/has melted under the BGA chip? I have the No Clean flux. Someone mentioned in a video that one indicator is that the flux starts to bubble. Not sure how valid that would be. The first time I did it the flux looked like it evaporated (certainly on top of the chip) but never seemed to bubble.

Of course, this all presumes the chip is OK and it *is* just a reflow issue

Continued appreciation on this...Steph

The 300Mhz chips seem to last pretty well. Definitely a lot longer than the 400Mhz chips which tend to die after 18,000 hours so I would suspect a cracked solderball.

I have done this over 50 times and have yet to see anything obvious to indicate that the solder has melted. I recognize that you are not planning to remove it but the heat requirements are the same because you still have to get those balls to go molten.

With the resources/tools you have on hand, I would probably try to go with higher heat for a shorter time.

The bottom side will definitely get hot particularly under that BGA which is why I place the probe from an oven temp sensor under there. I set the alarm for 150 degrees and if the alarm goes off, I shut the heat down. This ensures that the bottom side solder doesn't melt and drop parts.

The big variable on this type of job is the firmware. The DSP uses a NAND chip for firmware and sets it up so that it emulates a hard drive (like a computer). Since this device acts like a hard drive, the DSP writes and reads to it. In about 30% of the repairs I have done I found that when the DSP failed, it did so in the middle of a "write" command which caused the NAND to become corrupted. This can be fixed but it is a royal PITA and requires a programmer as well as a copy of the code.

HTH

Todd

Thanks, as usual, for the support.

I would ask more questions...but I think that's me just delaying the inevitable....I guess I'll have to "man up" and do the actual work

I'll try your set up (cover up nearby parts, cut out foil for "edging" around the bga, etc.).

1 last question for clarity....This may sound like a dumb or obvious question...you talk about moving your wand around over the chip. Is your expectation that you can heat the chip from the top and that will melt the solder balls (heat transferring from the top of the chip, thru it and down to melt the solder balls)? Or do you move the wand around and ensure that most, or a lot, of the hot air flows under the chip for more direct heating of the solder balls (seems the more obvious to me)?

Thx...Steph

tjmotter
Senior Member

Posts: 384

Onkyo No Sound HDMI DTS Repair Fix Tutorial Nov 25, 2020 20:54:09 GMT -5

Quote

Post by tjmotter on Nov 25, 2020 20:54:09 GMT -5

Nov 25, 2020 16:52:25 GMT -5 svniceguy said:

Thanks, as usual, for the support.

I would ask more questions...but I think that's me just delaying the inevitable....I guess I'll have to "man up" and do the actual work

I'll try your set up (cover up nearby parts, cut out foil for "edging" around the bga, etc.).

1 last question for clarity....This may sound like a dumb or obvious question...you talk about moving your wand around over the chip. Is your expectation that you can heat the chip from the top and that will melt the solder balls (heat transferring from the top of the chip, thru it and down to melt the solder balls)? Or do you move the wand around and ensure that most, or a lot, of the hot air flows under the chip for more direct heating of the solder balls (seems the more obvious to me)?

Thx...Steph

BGA's are designed to be heated from the top. The heat will transfer through the package to the balls. Here is a video of how a proper shop would do it:

In an ideal world the adapter on the end of the heat gun would be the same size as the chip but mine is smaller so I can't mount it on a stand as shown in the video and instead, I hold the wand with my hand and move it in a circular motion around the chip.

HTH

Todd

Last Edit: Nov 25, 2020 20:55:58 GMT -5 by tjmotter

svniceguy
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Posts: 10

Onkyo No Sound HDMI DTS Repair Fix Tutorial Nov 26, 2020 0:11:42 GMT -5

Quote

Post by svniceguy on Nov 26, 2020 0:11:42 GMT -5

Nov 25, 2020 20:54:09 GMT -5 tjmotter said:

Nov 25, 2020 16:52:25 GMT -5 svniceguy said:

Thanks, as usual, for the support.

I would ask more questions...but I think that's me just delaying the inevitable....I guess I'll have to "man up" and do the actual work

I'll try your set up (cover up nearby parts, cut out foil for "edging" around the bga, etc.).

1 last question for clarity....This may sound like a dumb or obvious question...you talk about moving your wand around over the chip. Is your expectation that you can heat the chip from the top and that will melt the solder balls (heat transferring from the top of the chip, thru it and down to melt the solder balls)? Or do you move the wand around and ensure that most, or a lot, of the hot air flows under the chip for more direct heating of the solder balls (seems the more obvious to me)?

Thx...Steph

BGA's are designed to be heated from the top. The heat will transfer through the package to the balls. Here is a video of how a proper shop would do it:

In an ideal world the adapter on the end of the heat gun would be the same size as the chip but mine is smaller so I can't mount it on a stand as shown in the video and instead, I hold the wand with my hand and move it in a circular motion around the chip.

HTH

Todd

I worked in semiconductors/system level products for a number of years at Intel, but this was some time before BGA devices were standard pkgs. So while I am literate in semiconductors, BGAs are a foreign animal for me. I am very used to devices where you can actually see and access the pins. Thus my naive question about where to focus the heat gun.

I get the idea, tho, and in some ways, now seems a bit more straightforward (tho, not any less daunting

I'll post back after I try this out in the next few days.

Very much appreciate your wisdom and guidance on this.

Cheers and thx...Steph

svniceguy
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Posts: 10

Onkyo No Sound HDMI DTS Repair Fix Tutorial Dec 9, 2020 20:09:30 GMT -5

Quote

Post by svniceguy on Dec 9, 2020 20:09:30 GMT -5

Todd (if you're still around

Finally got around to trying this process a couple more times. It's still not clear if I'm getting the solder to melt underneath (I'm also nervous about overheating the chip and ruining it

Is there a temp at the top of the chip that will indicate I am at, or just above, melting point for the solder balls underneath? Or should I just kick it close to 260 C (maybe 240 or 250 C?) and believe things have happened?

On the debug readout, DSP1st shows all question marks. DSP2nd shows a few question marks, a forward slash, then more question marks. Any info you can provide on reprogramming the firmware? I have a programmer that can handle this particular nand chip. Prob'ly not in-circuit, tho.

I really want to try and not turn this into a 7-ch amp only

Hope things are well in your part of the world....Steph

Last Edit: Dec 11, 2020 9:46:26 GMT -5 by svniceguy

mariusb
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Posts: 5

Onkyo No Sound HDMI DTS Repair Fix Tutorial Feb 12, 2021 10:50:42 GMT -5

Quote

Post by mariusb on Feb 12, 2021 10:50:42 GMT -5

Hello, I have the situation below. It is about an onkyo nr818. Any advice is helpful.

The receiver works on Zone 2 and Zone 3 but I have an DSP error. Recently I maded reball to the CI DSP D830K013BZKB4 but still I have the same error.

tibimakai Master Tech Posts: 689	Onkyo No Sound HDMI DTS Repair Fix Tutorial Feb 12, 2021 10:55:10 GMT -5 Quote Select Post Deselect Post Link to Post Member Give Gift Back to Top Post by tibimakai on Feb 12, 2021 10:55:10 GMT -5 The DSP could be bad. They were recalled by Texas Instruments. They can be replaced by the D version. Instead of B there is a D. Marius, from Romania?

ummagumma89
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Posts: 2

Onkyo No Sound HDMI DTS Repair Fix Tutorial Feb 12, 2021 11:10:03 GMT -5

Quote

Post by ummagumma89 on Feb 12, 2021 11:10:03 GMT -5

This is still working for me

Rolling back to an older firmware by forcing usb update
May or may not help, but I am convinced all of these weird problems people had with certain onkyo amps were firmware related.
This isn't long term proven yet, different amp, but just sharing something interesting I figured out last night. Tested the amp the next morning before work, still working fine. When I got home checked again, sure enough it works fine.
Amp is a TX-8050 model supposedly with this dsp chip everyone talks about and it had no sound, usb would initialize forever and missing setup options for internet and firmware update. Had just aquired it for free, no sound when I got it

I've brought back a TX-8050 from the dead last night. I was convinced it was the firmware updates.
Ill share my first post from last night. literally joined just to offer help, because the amp is still working.
For the TX-8050,
The hardest part I think is getting that usb to stop forever initializing and getting "net" and update firmware options back in the setup menu. (NOT EVEN SURE IF IT MATTERS)

This part is how I managed to get the missing setup options ( net and update firmware in setup menu and to get the usb port to finally read a usb instead of initializing forever)
I'm not even sure this step is necessary
I started messing around with these "secret commands" that you push on the receiver itself. no remote needed.
There is information on temperature, dsp firmware versions and random numbers.
Certain button combinations do certain things.
I was able to Save my settings by pressing setup and enter twice. (this feature on my amp is designed to save your amp settings when you factory reset.
Then I load the settings by pressing setup and return button twice.
Amp automatically powers off and resets. It took a couple tries, even doing the factory reset every once and awhile. you might even have to be on a certain input to get this to work. It was usually loading the saved settings command, amp resets, all of a sudden I had my missing menu options in setup back and the USB would read again.

Found a strange button combination that brought up a hidden menu that allowed me to FORCE UPDATE from usb.
Keep in mind im convinced its firmware related and not this stupid dsp chip. (I never even opened the amp up)
Found a forum with a link to all previous firmware updates including the factory one, or first update period. hopefully your amps are in there if you want to try this
I downloaded the oldest firmware I could 1000 0000 0000 from 2011 for my amp. Extract files to empty usb. Might not be your best option in your situation as maybe some of your features that were added over the firmware updates may disappear, but I am confident I can, with my particular model, install any firmware I want that is FOR my TX-8050

Firmware Archive
www.intl.onkyo.com/support/firmware/index.html
Firmware Updates | ONKYO Asia and Oceania Website
Download official firmware updates for Onkyo home entertainment products here.
www.intl.onkyo.com

Further reference to how I heard this was possible (keep in mind these instructions are not for my model amp, but guided me to figure out this hidden menu for the tx8050.

divideoverflow.com/2015/05/how-to-update-onkyo-firmware-to-older-version/

This guys method was not the same for me. I had to figure out how to get to the menu he talks about, but led me in the right direction for my amp.

This is how I got to the menu

I put the input selector nob to usb (not the update firmware usb option in setup, the usb read to listen to music) , plugged in the usb with the old firmware. Everyone else may have it different, Maybe your selectors are all button, mine is a turn knob selector

Once again your amp may be different but see if you can find any info about secret menus for your amp. I can't find anything online about this in regards to my model.

Hold Display button and push standby button. push tuning mode/play button and return button within 2-3 seconds. if you dont hit the return button within the 2-3 seconds you end up in one of the hidden menus for temperature and other information. get back to the usb read and start over holding display button and push standby.
Once i pushed return button within 2-3 seconds, the force update menu came up. Maybe there is a name for it?

Update select menu shows up
Push the tuning knobs (big circle next to volume to configure what you want. I selected usb -> all.
Rolled back the firmware from the newest to the oldest. I just wanted to see if it would somehow fix the no sound problem
Once it completed I pushed standby, it reset.
Also keep in mind once I got to this menu I had to figure out which buttons controlled the values. push the wrong one, back to the beginning.

I'm pretty sure I still did not have sound immediately upon amp kicking back on, but I could finally hear the speakers being selected on or off when I pushed A or B)
Loaded my saved setup (to load - hold setup and enter twice. amp shuts off and either restarts itself or you have to turn it back on, can't remember.
From my experience with this amp, it seems certain things would work if the amp would reset itself instead of just powering it off with the button. For all i know it doesn't matter, this is what I did.
Turn the amp back on it back on, I had music.
I am currently on the factory firmware 1000 - 0000 0000 or whatever it is from 2011. I was on the newest one from 2015 1.5 I think. There were some other interesting options combinations in that menu, have no idea what they would do.
My point is I read everywhere i could about rolling back the firmware and everything I found suggested that it is not possible
Tested the next day before work, had sound.
Tested it when I got home from work today, Still works.
Not saying it is the answer for everyone sharing because it might help SOMEBODY.
No long term test yet, I just did this last night.
Interested if somebody knows the name of this menu and if it helped

Last Edit: Feb 12, 2021 11:34:56 GMT -5 by ummagumma89

wildone
New Member

Posts: 5

Onkyo No Sound HDMI DTS Repair Fix Tutorial Feb 25, 2021 6:06:58 GMT -5

Quote

Post by wildone on Feb 25, 2021 6:06:58 GMT -5

Hi all,
I recently discovered this GREAT forum.

I have done a few reflowing/reballing the Onkyo receivers with the dodgy DTS chip with some success and quite a few heavy duty "paper weights/boat anchors".

Could anyone please tell me the differences between the B,"D B4" and "D B5" version of the DTS chip? I believe the main culprit is purely the early and "dodgy" lead-free manufacturing process rather than the "B" version of the chip? Can anyone confirm this?

Also, does anyone know the replacement DTS chip from Aliexpress are lead or lead-free solder balls? I had different answers from the sellers so tent to use the lead-free temperature profile previously.

Cheers all.

Last Edit: Feb 25, 2021 6:14:36 GMT -5 by wildone