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Post by alphonse on Oct 18, 2020 11:24:06 GMT -5
hello,
I see an amplifier to repair around 50 € with a quote from a repair service certified by the
manufacturer explaining that: " the bga dsp / net section must be reconditioned. The firmware
rewritten. And factory settings reset "
Is there a diagnostic way to know if we have to change the bga chip before having to reball it ?
Is it enough just to reball (or reflow ...) the bga chip to repair the amplifier ?
Best regards
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Post by tjmotter on Oct 18, 2020 18:42:26 GMT -5
They are referring to the TI DSP chip. This chip provides digital signal processing and also controls the USB port and the network port. The NR515 originally shipped with the D830K013DZKB400 (the last letter denotes the rev and in this case it is the "B rev"). This chip was identified by TI as suffering from early failure. In my experience, these chips last a maximum of 18,000 hours after which they must be replaced. Another issue with these designs is that heat generated below the HDMI board can cause the board to flex. These chips use silver based solderballs which tend to crack when the board flexes. As such:
1- If the chip has less than 18,000 hours, it can often be repaired by performing a "reflow" on the chip to melt the solderballs and allow them to reconnect.
2- if the chip has over 15,000 hours on it, this chip will have to be replaced. As a fix, TI developed the D830K013DZKD400 ("D Rev"). These chips can be difficult to source and most of the supply you will find is in China. The issue here is that they are often dead (or dying) "B rev" parts that have the tops scraped off and repainted. FWIW, I have bought over 20 of these from China and all were fakes.
When you do this type of work, the firmware is usually ok however, in some instances it gets corrupted when the chip dies. Repair requires a copy of the firmware and a programmer.
When Onkyo repairs these systems, they install a new "D Rev" part. The only way to know if the chip is bad or if it needs to be reballed is to check how many hours are on the unit. If you search this forum you will find a video I created that describes how to find this.
HTH
todd
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Post by tjmotter on Oct 19, 2020 14:14:43 GMT -5
Here is a link to the video showing how to find the # of hours on an Onkyo receiver:
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Post by alphonse on Oct 20, 2020 10:33:32 GMT -5
This is the video that I found. Apologies for the late thank. The answer is really helpful  |
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Post by justincr83 on Jan 6, 2021 2:37:09 GMT -5
tjmotter same thing happen with my dsp chips drom china... i bought 3, mounted one yesterday but my tx 8050 behave didn’t change... I noticed something strange while soldering the first one. The surface of the ic doesn’t have the 3 larger dots on 3 corners and the 4th one which is slightly smaller in diameter but a little deep on the 4th corner (which indicates also the orientation of the ic) is hardly to be seen. This concludes they have grinded surfaces and new laser engraved texts... also the engraving design (font,logo,etc) differs from the original ones. At this point they can be anything, from different chip, to a used, dead rev B dts chip. I will try and compare them today under microscope. I also have an tx nr 515, same dts problem, does anyone know if i can swap the entire board from an tx nr 525? The only thing noticed until now is that the front usb connector is missing from the board.
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Post by justincr83 on Jan 6, 2021 4:20:51 GMT -5
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Post by tjmotter on Jan 6, 2021 7:08:33 GMT -5
I don't believe you can swap the board but you can recover the DSP from the 525, reball it and install it on the 515. The 525 generation used the "good" D rev chip
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Post by justincr83 on Jan 6, 2021 7:11:23 GMT -5
i did the board comparison 515 vs 525, they are similar but different ... so the only way is to swap the dsp chip. which i don;t know if it worth. I would gladly buy a new dsp rev D but i don't know where from 
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Post by tjmotter on Jan 6, 2021 10:40:45 GMT -5
These parts are simply not available anywhere. I have spoken with TI representatives directly and they informed me that this chip has licensed technology in it from organizations like Dolby and DTS which does not allow them to sell it to anyone except a very small list of equipment manufacturers like Onkyo. After spending a lot of money buying fakes, i have come to realize that pulling good parts from unused boards is the only valid way to fix these.
Sorry,
Todd
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Post by justincr83 on Jan 6, 2021 16:20:06 GMT -5
Todd, you are right! If i were a big company like Dolby or DTS i would like to keed my intellectual property safe. I will try to source some good known rev D chips from good boards and repair my onkyo...
This was a great chat with you, and i found a lot of usefull info!
Thanks!!
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Post by tibimakai on Jan 6, 2021 18:03:44 GMT -5
Todd, there is a way that we could recognize a fake ic?
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