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Post by xXFREDBERTXx on Aug 26, 2022 4:29:44 GMT -5
I find that not so kind that you ask again and again the same questions sorry @ nodols ☝️ You have since I ask you not replay back here with the hour counter usage from your no audio old B DSP so that we can say than clearly if it doable or not and not only a time waist 🧐 And why must tell andyb1712 you that what he buy for equipment you are only to lazy to find it yourself I guess right 😅 I can tell you that these tools cost easily over 200$ so way more worth than the defective Pio Amp now ✌️ The next Problem were that you can’t only watching it from a YouTube Video and learning it that is a far to crazy idea sorry you need practice that‘s all ☝️
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nodols
Junior Member
Posts: 75
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Post by nodols on Aug 29, 2022 9:23:41 GMT -5
I already listed the equipment you need before... Temperature controlled soldering iron Temperature controlled SMD rework hot air gun Eprom programmer + adapters BGA reball station + 0.6mm stencil There is no cheap or quick fix 'kit' for this repair. Yeah, sorry about that. About the reball station, would that simple Hot Air Rework Station work? I found some videos on youtube, cause where else, that one guy has this really fancy reball station. To which I believe wouldn't be economical as it's for DIY. So I was looking into those cheaper less than a 100 bucks worth of rework station. I have seen BGA stations that are specifically for BGA, but was wondering if a simple hot air rework station works? I have also checked on those Eprom programmers. Only thing is I would need a known good receiver that has the same exact model to match so I can extract and burn to the to be fixed receiver.
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nodols
Junior Member
Posts: 75
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Post by nodols on Aug 29, 2022 9:39:20 GMT -5
I find that not so kind that you ask again and again the same questions sorry @ nodols ☝️ You have since I ask you not replay back here with the hour counter usage from your no audio old B DSP so that we can say than clearly if it doable or not and not only a time waist 🧐 And why must tell andyb1712 you that what he buy for equipment you are only to lazy to find it yourself I guess right 😅 I can tell you that these tools cost easily over 200$ so way more worth than the defective Pio Amp now ✌️ The next Problem were that you can’t only watching it from a YouTube Video and learning it that is a far to crazy idea sorry you need practice that‘s all ☝️ Don't mean to be rude, but I'm trying to read again and again your post. Only now I understand what you tried to ask. I don't really know how to check the "hour counter usage", maybe you mean how long have I had it? Truth is I don't know, I bought some other things for a guy on garage sale, and saw the receiver. He gave it to me for free. As it was a Elite model so I was happy to accept it. Told me it wasn't working so I knew what I was going into. That is why I'm asking here. I do have some idea of electronics, so I figured I gave it a try to fix this. Seems it's not an easy fix. I've checked what Andyb1712 had said before, I figured I'd ask a starter kit, was thinking of just buying the hot air rework and not the whole reball jig which is way out of my league for now. I was asking because I wanted to learn this as I have since acquired others like Onkyo's, Marantz and Pioneers that had these similar issues. So it might be worthwhile to invest on some of these equipment. I did go to youtube and check out the programmer, and only a few videos are there. You should see my shopping cart now on the things that I've added. Probably not for the best, but will trim them down to bare essentials. I've fixed several receivers, and had killed some in the process due to improper tools. I buy broken used ones at dirt cheap prices and try to fix them. Some are simple fixes like busted Transistors, resistors, disconnected or cold solder ones. But this DSP chip is a whole new thing for me. So I wanted to know more about it before venturing into the unknown. I do have the simple cheapish tools, a cheapish temp controlled soldering iron. Handheld magnifying lens. Just the basics really. That's why I'm thinking of adding some of those really essential bare minimum tools. I don't wanna go crazy on buying tools that I'd only need once when the moon is blue. I hope I have answered your questions.
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Post by Admin on Aug 29, 2022 10:13:31 GMT -5
This forum is all about helping those who have little to no experience in electronics repair. Lets face it, those with great experience do not need to ask. Also, there is nothing wrong with asking the same question multiple times. It only means that they did not understand the answers that were previously given. And someone wanting to learn something new is a good thing. We have all been there. So lets please try to be kind and help out when we can and not question someones intent. Experimenting and trying something new can be fun and rewarding. Let's all enjoy ourselves here.
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Post by xXFREDBERTXx on Aug 29, 2022 12:50:04 GMT -5
@ nodols you hope that you answer my questions really that’s funny 😂
Sorry I can’t help you when you trying only @ a cheap level to fix these BGA ones that is a 110% fail rate than ☝️
I wish you all the best with your elite one but I am out now ☺️
Regards
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Post by Admin on Aug 29, 2022 13:40:30 GMT -5
You have since I ask you not replay back here with the hour counter usage from your no audio old B DSP so that we can say than clearly if it doable or not and not only a time waist 🧐 I am curious, what is the exact hour count that is considered "doable or not"?
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Post by xXFREDBERTXx on Aug 29, 2022 14:51:38 GMT -5
Sorry Admin I don’t tell someone my high value knowledge that are asking and asking only the same stuff over and over and can’t take a advice on and would really try a repair with cheap tools in my opinion that can’t work and it is for sure a time waist than with BGA DSP‘s ☝️ I have really enough practice and knowledge in that repair and can tell these people that it can’t work in these cheap way than ☝️ But when he really try the hard way than go for it I don’t stop him anyway 😎
Regard‘s
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Post by Admin on Aug 29, 2022 15:03:44 GMT -5
Sorry Admin I don’t tell someone my high value knowledge that are asking and asking only the same stuff over and over and can’t take a advice on and would really try a repair with cheap tools in my opinion that can’t work and it is for sure a time waist than with BGA DSP‘s ☝️ I have really enough practice and knowledge in that repair and can tell these people that it can’t work in these cheap way than ☝️ But when he really try the hard way than go for it I don’t stop him anyway 😎 Regard‘s I was asking for my self and the question is really very simple. I am curious what the hour count is for repairable or not.
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Post by xXFREDBERTXx on Aug 29, 2022 15:40:09 GMT -5
Yeah Admin it is a really simple question that is true and my really simple answer is NO to it ☝️ I don‘t tell it here because it don’t get honor here sorry try and error is the key to these knowledge to get that’s all I say now 😎☝️
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Post by Admin on Aug 29, 2022 16:50:47 GMT -5
Yeah Admin it is a really simple question that is true and my really simple answer is NO to it ☝️ I don‘t tell it here because it don’t get honor here sorry try and error is the key to these knowledge to get that’s all I say now 😎☝️ Maybe it is just a problem with the translation from your language to English but when you say "it dont get honor" do you mean because you do not get paid or payment, as in money?
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Post by xXFREDBERTXx on Aug 29, 2022 17:15:40 GMT -5
Admin all fine you can’t get these information out of me sorry I keep these high value storage in my head and don’t share these here ☝️ I can’t help people that asking again and again the same stuff here sorry It feels than like a CD that play the same track again and again and you can’t stop it ☝️ These people must learn it than the hard way because these don’t accept what you wrote what is not normal sorry 🫣 I mean I start also with no skill but I was not lazy what many are and want than only a easy and not much working for fix what it is not with these BGA DSP‘s Typ ☝️ But I can’t help here anymore because my knowledge is not needed and don’t accept here so I let it than 😎
Cheers
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nodols
Junior Member
Posts: 75
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Post by nodols on Aug 29, 2022 20:13:28 GMT -5
Admin all fine you can’t get these information out of me sorry I keep these high value storage in my head and don’t share these here ☝️ I can’t help people that asking again and again the same stuff here sorry It feels than like a CD that play the same track again and again and you can’t stop it ☝️ These people must learn it than the hard way because these don’t accept what you wrote what is not normal sorry 🫣 I mean I start also with no skill but I was not lazy what many are and want than only a easy and not much working for fix what it is not with these BGA DSP‘s Typ ☝️ But I can’t help here anymore because my knowledge is not needed and don’t accept here so I let it than 😎 Cheers I understand what you mean. Fact is not everyone here has all the time in the world to do research, that is why some people here came posting questions that only experts like you could have answered. I'm also curious what you mean by "hour counter", my curiosity is piqued. Without looking or searching google, what came to mind was the time I had it, but it seems it is more technical than that. Could "Hour counter" mean the embedded program in the EEPROM itself that counts the uptime of the receiver? This is synonymous to phones uptime or MacBook's on how they count how long has it been on. Basically the same with phone battery counter on how many times the battery was charged and discharged? If this is what you mean by that. I don't really think it counts that much. As I've seen receivers that lasted for ages and some newer ones that were thought to breakdown in 2 years but are still going strong. What I believe more is with proper care and usage of the amp it could even outlast the owner. Not sure what you mean when you say you cannot fix things with just simple cheap tools. I have fixed several TV's, Amplifiers, Receivers, Radios, keyboards, laptops, high performance subwoofers, chargers, SMPS supplies with only an analog multimeter, cheap soldering iron, google and nothing more. Of course there is a little bit of luck involve there too. I have upgraded since them though. Not really sure if it's worth to upgrade to a full reball station though. I have a full time time job so doing this as a hobby. We all have a budget to play around, sadly mine has limits. Still this "hour counter usage" piqued my curiosity.
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Post by andyb1712 on Nov 9, 2022 9:29:27 GMT -5
<<I am curious, what is the exact hour count that is considered "doable or not"?>>
In my experience there is no definitive hour count that makes this repair doable or not.
I've seen Pioneers fail as low as 13k hours and go as high as 33k hours on original D810 B chips and D808 C chips. The D810 chips respond well to a reflow or reball but the D808s usually require replacement. Sometimes no audio is just a failed voltage reg on the D-MAIN or DAC board and the clue to this is the firmware is still displayed correctly without any * * * in the version number.
Onkyos are in my experience worse, with no audio failures occurring at anything from 4k hours upwards on the D830 B 400 chips but these are often corrupted firmware and/or NAND chips developing bad blocks. Replacement of the NAND loaded with a working firmware dump often fixes this. If not it's a reball or replacement DSP. The earlier A and B 300 chips seem to last longer, presumably due to the lower clock speed.
To make matters worse both brands suffer BGA failure due to lead free solder. I always reball with leaded solder for improved reliability.
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nodols
Junior Member
Posts: 75
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Post by nodols on Jan 24, 2023 12:46:35 GMT -5
<<I am curious, what is the exact hour count that is considered "doable or not"?>> In my experience there is no definitive hour count that makes this repair doable or not. I've seen Pioneers fail as low as 13k hours and go as high as 33k hours on original D810 B chips and D808 C chips. The D810 chips respond well to a reflow or reball but the D808s usually require replacement. Sometimes no audio is just a failed voltage reg on the D-MAIN or DAC board and the clue to this is the firmware is still displayed correctly without any * * * in the version number. Onkyos are in my experience worse, with no audio failures occurring at anything from 4k hours upwards on the D830 B 400 chips but these are often corrupted firmware and/or NAND chips developing bad blocks. Replacement of the NAND loaded with a working firmware dump often fixes this. If not it's a reball or replacement DSP. The earlier A and B 300 chips seem to last longer, presumably due to the lower clock speed. To make matters worse both brands suffer BGA failure due to lead free solder. I always reball with leaded solder for improved reliability. Further on this, Andy I recognized your handle on another forum where you fixed the two Pioneer receiver where one has the ***** on the code and managed to fix it with a reflash from another 2021 model. I'm planning to use that firmware dump you used on my VSX-52, thinking it might work on my end as well as I've checked the circuit and they have exactly the same exact EEPROM number, even the marking/print on the board is the same. Hopefully it works, going to be investing on some EEPROM burner, still getting into the hobby and it's starting to get a hold on me, same with other hobby can't seem to get enough "right" tools.
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Post by fachura on Feb 15, 2023 16:00:04 GMT -5
Witam szanownych kolegów mam prośbę poszukuję do Pionner sc-lx85 flasch pamięci SPI IC9004 jeśli ktoś mógł by mnie poratować będę bardzo wdzięczny.
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