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Post by oldrob47 on Mar 13, 2021 12:49:18 GMT -5
Hi All I am looking for some guidance having inherited this amp and possibly opened a can of worms. I have read the 14 pages from the dsp thread and maybe suffering the same issue and maybe not and are after some pointers to elimante things first if I may ask. The amp has the classic no sound issue and when I opened the cover I saw the dsp had been worked on before (lots of dust everywhere but the dsp) which is frustrating. When I look at firmwares I see DSP 1st/NET as all ?, Main as 1.08/12607ALN, OSD 1.03/11801ALN. I get no logo on hdmi out, just a blue screen and if I toggle hdmi board off and use radio as a source I get audio working showing the amp is functional. My concern is the Q8101 is hot and suspect may be sinking current through it. Are there steps to help isolate if this is HDMI chip related or all / some / none dsp ? The DSP may also be faulty or shorted as may Q8101 and throw in firmware too. Any help to narrow this down is appreciated as I suspect I may be looking at multiple faults ? Rob
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Post by oldrob47 on Mar 14, 2021 17:48:15 GMT -5
Slight update, managed to get menu on screen now as cleaned and reflowed Q8101. No network or usb still and still have DSP1 as ? ? ? ? ? ? Checked voltages on the coils and all seem ok. L8971 1.8 L8951 3.4 L8931 5.2
Q8101 is still hot to the touch though - can anyone else report if this is normal ?
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Post by Deleted on Mar 15, 2021 7:08:42 GMT -5
I'm no expert on Onkyo and haven't worked on a TX-NR509 but they do seem to run hot and more so than their Pioneer counterparts. I would check the ripple on the supplies to the HDMI chip and check/replace any electrolytic capacitors around it, which may help with this. A small heat sink bonded on won't do any harm if you think its still too hot. The loss of network/usb/audio will most likely be the DSP chip and/or the NAND flash connected to it. I'm currently trying to fix a TX-NR808 with the same issue. I would replace the NAND for one that doesn't have any bad blocks and load it with a firmware dump from a working unit. Try reflowing the DSP before condemning it as it may just be a failed solder joint. Replacing or reballing it is the only other option. There is a NAND firmware dump for the TX-NR509 here, (4th post from the bottom): www.elektroda.pl/rtvforum/topic2825727-180.htmlI got lucky with a TX-NR807 recently and just reflowed the DSP, which got it going. I pre-heated the board using a mobile phone hot plate, then put plenty of liquid flux under the DSP and heated it for a 60 to 90 seconds to reflow the joints underneath. How long it lasts though, remains to be seen!
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Post by oldrob47 on Mar 15, 2021 16:54:42 GMT -5
Thanks for that Andy. I am just working through the schematic to trace the (many) voltage lines and coils which feed the multiple 1.8 and 3.3v to the hdmi chip to make sure it is ok and not being pulled down. I suspect the dsp is the culprit and ordered one from ali this morning to see and talk a friend with a bga machine to assist. Quite enjoying engaging the grey matter faultfinding though and already scouring ebay looking for similar machines to tinker with!
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Post by Deleted on Mar 15, 2021 19:49:26 GMT -5
I'm wary of any replacement DSP chips from China. A lot are fakes or salvaged parts and anything that is claimed to be brand new is likely to be anything but.
I do have a reliable source in China for semiconductors but these particular parts are becoming scarce and I think the ones I've bought are all used reballed ones.
I would try reflowing your original one first and if that doesn't work look at the NAND flash before embarking on any BGA rework as it may not be the problem.
Onkyo AVRs from 2009 to 2013 seem to be the worst affected by the faulty TI DSP chips but Pioneer have their share of dodgy models too, so be careful what you buy on eBay.
I download the service manual and look at the hardware it uses before bidding. Most of the older models don't usually go for much money now because of the well known faults, even if they were £1000 new.
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Post by tibimakai on Mar 16, 2021 10:05:04 GMT -5
Sometimes you can find HDMI boards on Ebay, and you could remove the DSP from that board. You should get a newer model board, that most likely has an updated DSP IC on it.
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Post by oldrob47 on Mar 16, 2021 11:15:00 GMT -5
Thanks both. In hindsight I perhaps should have walked away from messing with it (could say the same for many things I tinker with) especially if most of the 'new' ic's are reballed old ones which I wasn't aware of when I started! In this instance the DSP has been reflowed quite a bit so suspect it will be the main culprit. Unfortunately I dont have access to reballing equipment so are asking my friend for help with this who has. I take it (other than ic's which just die due to faults) that 90% of these are dry joints natuarally which can then become shorts or other faiulure depending on how well / badly thay have been reheated. If so then reballing with leaded solder would help no end ?
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Post by Deleted on Mar 16, 2021 11:33:53 GMT -5
From what I've read on here and other forums, the lead free solder is partly the problem as it is quite brittle compared to leaded and joints can crack from heat cycling over time. The reballed chips I've bought from China have been done with leaded solder, so should be better in this respect. The other problem is Texas Instruments issued a bulletin about premature failure of a whole range of DSP chips, so fitting a replacement is no guarantee of it lasting very long.
I've ordered a hand reballing station, 0.6mm stencil and solder balls from my source in China to have a go at the procedure myself. My TX-NR807 and 808 both use an earlier '300' suffix chip and I don't think they will work with anything else, so reballing the original may be my only option rather than keep reheating the lead free solder until the chip dies.
The NAND/NOR flash does also seem to be a big problem if it gets corrupted due to a failing DSP. I've ordered 5 x NAND replacements in the hope at least one will have zero bad blocks so I can load a file I found on the Polish website Elektroda.
I have looked for HDMI boards on eBay but the only ones I've seen so far have been advertised as spares or repairs, which probably means they're no better than the ones I have. Pioneer boards are even more scarce than Onkyo ones. I only started working on these when I bought a faulty Pioneer VSX-2021 back in December, thinking it might be an easy fix. I worked on it for quite a while before getting it going but had to replace the DSP and erase/reprogram the flash chip associated with it. It's been running ok for a couple of months but I don't know how long it will last.
I bought the Onkyos for peanuts because I'm stuck at home for medical reasons/covid shielding at the moment. They've helped pass the time and as you said earlier keep the grey matter working!
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