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Post by gjaky on Oct 2, 2015 14:16:45 GMT -5
With a friend we made session today and at last friday. He has two digital projectors, a Digital Projection TITAN 250HD, a 3*DLP, a real big gun of its time, "only" 720p, 1600lumen, 4000:1 CR. The other projector is a Samsung A600, 1*DLP, 1080p, 1000 lumen, 3000:1 CR. He was very interested in CRT so he checked my XG out last friday, overall he was impressed, although he found it a bit blurry (of course), but otherwise he liked the picture. Today I went to his place and we started with the TITAN. It is a really nice machine, although it's only a 720P machine it easily had more details than the XG I have to admit that. The screendor effect of the 720P did not bother me as much as I thought. Of course pixels became visible on several ocassion but it wasn't that annoying. After we changed to 1080p-72Hz the motions were quite good too! I had problems with the 4400:1 contrast ratio though. Although mixed scenes look awesome but the dark scenes... ooohhh... those are not that much  Then we changed to the Samsung which was a bit less bright and had even worse contrast, that contrast was really annoying to me even more. And although it was a 1080p display it did not appear to be sharper, only the pixels became invisible from our viewing distance, the rainbow effect was fair. It seemed to me that most of the critics about the digital projector do not bothering me that much, both of these machines threw a very nice picture without the impression being "artifical" and "cartoon likeness" which is often plagued by CRT users checking on digital displays. Only the inferior on/off contrast made them unappealing to me. I believe I could enjoy watching movies on a digital projector with CR >8-10000:1 any time. Not that I plan to replace the XG anytime soon, I just wanted to speak out my observations. |
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Post by mastertech on Oct 2, 2015 14:27:01 GMT -5
What were the screen sizes? This is very important when making viewing opinions. Also source device, connection and material.
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Post by gjaky on Oct 2, 2015 14:48:49 GMT -5
His was a considerably wider screen about 3.2m wide, but we sat about 5m from the screen. In my room the screen is only 2m wide but the seats are at 2.5m from the screen.
The source was htpc in both case, he connected with HDMI of course, I am using RGBHV. The materials were mostly the same both case, my demo clips and oblivion movie.
He had an advantage that he has a dedicated movie room with dark walls, our HT is actually our living room with white walls.
The main purpose wasn't a real shoot out, just to make impressions on the machines.
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Post by gjaky on Nov 16, 2015 13:50:19 GMT -5
The hungarian High-end audio-video show was just held the past weekend.
The was two major Hometheater installation which I saw:
Room 1: Sony 1080p / 4K demo with HW65 (1080p) and VW520 (4K).
the screen was 2.5m wide if I'm right and I sat aproximately at 1.3 width (just like home) we started with the HW65, I could easily spot the black(gray) level of the sony, otherwise it appeared nice sharp, but the movements looked so unnatural, actually a clip from oblivion highlighted quite clearly that it is a heavy CGS movie degrading to it more "cartoonlike".
From my wieving seat the 4K (VW520) demo did not bring more detail, just more sharpness in an unfavourable way (for me at least), the looking out of the window effect certainly fell off. Also the VW520 appeared to have worse on:off CR.
As it turned out at the end all sony image enhancements were set all the way up on both projectors, also as I heard the sonys were running at 120Hz refresh with motion interpolation (probably this caused the odd movements), I don't know if this motion interpolation can be switched off, because without it it would be a totally OK picture to me (the HW65 for sure).
ROOM 2: with a Barco optix cinemascope, native 21:9 projector (1 chip DLP, 2560*1080), dual lamp. The demo material was standard bluray. The screen was 3.5m wide (21:9) and I again sat at about 1.3 width. There were subtitles during the demo material where the rainbow effect was clearly visible, the motions were smooth, and it was a pleasing view otherwise, sharp enough, but not unnatural, although the on:off contrast IMO was seriously lacking (7000:1 advertised), but was much worse than either sony's, at one clip I even spotted that the (lack of) on:off contrast crushed the shadow details. And the room was darkened well.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 12, 2015 8:13:01 GMT -5
So the black levels are still not there? I was thinking about the epson ls1000 laser 4k upscaling but I heared still blacklevel not real black  |
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Post by gjaky on Dec 12, 2015 14:03:55 GMT -5
I found the HW65 quite good in absolute black level, actually I only could spot the background of the full black picture after a few seconds after light go down in the room. But I've seen a few other cheaper "mass" DLP projectors like Samsung A600 and Benq W1070, they had some very noticeable black level affecting mixed brightnes scenes. But all of these appeared sharper of course than my XG.
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Post by stridsvognen on Feb 18, 2019 5:58:54 GMT -5
I just spend 25 hours on a SONY VPL-VW270ES the sony entry level 4K projector setup in my HT together with my Marquee with Gjakys mods in it.
The SONY is better than i expected, usyally SONY have loads of artifacts in the image, that mostly seems gone in this new model.
It calibrates fairly well, could use a better grayscale correction, only have a 2 point adjustment, black levle sucks, its DLP ish 5000:1 on off contrast, so Harry Potter movies is not a pleasure to watch.
But it dont take much light in a scene before you dont notice the elevated black level, and thats where the Sony shine.
I experimented with HD and UHD content, and various UHD players like the new Panasonic, OPPO 203 and Xbox, and setteled with the Xbox as the best one all around, and most titles i do prefer the HD SDR disc upscaled to 4K, but not in the Sony.. Terrible scaling, thats where the Xbox really shine. With 1080P content upscaled it looks quite natural, nice balance, where UHD tends to look overly artificial, and its hard to keep focus, as every detail is competing for atention.
I end up prefering the Marquee, and surprisingly not so much for the low level performance, but more its natural presentation of the image, and how it can make people look natural, The Sony have a twist of odd color reproduction, even it measures better, it can not really resolve the finer shades and skin colors, specially in faces you notice this, its not uncommon issue with digital, its like a weak banding/ bit graduation issue most digital displays suffers from, and why it actually looks better with a little blue push, who eliminates red and green tints.
There is definatly some convinience with the Sony, turn it on, and watch a movie, dont worry to much about heat up or convergence, not as noisy as a old Marquee hanging straight over your head, it took me less than 30 min to mount a shelf on the wall and get it setup to display a ok image on my screen.
This Sony will be sold at some point, but its not impossible that ill get a better 4K projector in the future, the 4K resolution give digital a much more liquid look, what 1080P digitals never had, the lack of visible pixels is a huge step forward, the WCG and HDR is a gimick, and a absolute disaster for projection, waste of money, like many of the 4K players, who in general perform woese on most parameters than good BD players did a few years ago.
Out of this stunt i had another not so funny experience as i was calbrating, i ordered a new probe recently as i thought my old one had drifted off, based on readings i did on my Marquee, where the primary targets specially on green was way off, it was actually not the probe, but the OPPO player compleetly messing up the color tracking, so got a new project finding out what thats all about, and if it apply to all content, or only to its HDMI inputs, and if its all color spaces or only when converting from RGB to component.
How lovely this hobby is.. Specially these days where firmware updates happens on a daily basis, and nobody knows what kind of new hickups they implemented.
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