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Post by dummyload on Mar 7, 2016 13:24:44 GMT -5
Fan sense and fan fail circuits are at the smps subboard .(where the +9v is generated)
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Post by radiohead314 on Mar 7, 2016 14:40:21 GMT -5
Stanby or projector on is only little different in load to the +9v sub board ,beep means not necessarily bad . Look with scoop how +9v output looks like. Good idea!
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Post by Casethecorvetteman on Mar 7, 2016 17:22:27 GMT -5
Fan sense and fan fail circuits are at the smps subboard .(where the +9v is generated) Thanks mate, that narrows it right down for me!! The whole SMPS needs a few capacitors replaced, ive just never got round to it yet. Tjeerd may remember some time back during discussions on setting the 17v pot that one of my power supplies hold voltage under load very well, the other drops a bit more than a volt on that 17v line.
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Post by radiohead314 on Mar 8, 2016 6:06:29 GMT -5
You can easy disconnect the subboard and try the other subboard so you know for sure. Check them to be certain but I found no different schematics for different smps models.
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Post by Casethecorvetteman on Mar 8, 2016 6:12:14 GMT -5
Yeah i could do that, but ill probably give the old one a full rebuild and then install it in the set, the one in there now is a 2005 build and seems very stable.
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Post by radiohead314 on Mar 8, 2016 7:21:55 GMT -5
Is it a newer model with a different R number your 2005 smps? Look at these Panasonic FM for the standby voltage Untitled by Radio Head, on Flickr
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Post by Casethecorvetteman on Mar 8, 2016 7:33:05 GMT -5
Not sure, havent compared the numbers, but it is a hell of alot more stable.
When measuring the 17v line, i set for 17.3v at 1920x1080p with a full white screen, full black screen only rises to about 17.55v, so it holds pretty well. The older one goes up over 18v with a black screen.
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Post by radiohead314 on Mar 14, 2016 9:37:29 GMT -5
Ok I need some help here. I tried everything I could think of and am almost stuck.
I replace the transistor Q101 in the SMPS that switches the HTHD, the voltage for the horizontal deflection. The new Q101 is a 2SC3998 just like the old one. I tested it as a npn transistor and it seems good. Behind the Q101 is a thin sheet of plastic I applied cooling pasta on both sides.
I also replaced the pulsating TDA4601. A quick check on the pins made me belive it measured th same as the old one so I think the TDA was not broken.
Now when I switch on the Barco with the big button it should go to standby. From what I understand 325V (I measured) is going through fuse F100. It is on the collector of Q101 but since the unit is standby the TDA is not powered and Q101 has zero volt on the base so It should not conduct. I checked that with the fuse F100 removed and indeed the TDA has no power and Q101 has zero volt on the Base.
Now when I insert a fuse a normal SMPS gets 0.8V on the pin 9 of the TDA supply and it is still off (it needs 20V). So on my faulthy SMPS inserting the fuse should not activate the TDA in any way.
But what I see is that with the fuse the HTHD led burns on the subboard (subboards is tested ok) even in standby and the fuse blows. Also a crack is heared. After that only the standby led burns on the subboard. The subboard regulates the 9V standby that part works good.
So I conclude that the 325V that should be blocked somehow conducts through the transformator of the HTHD to ground. But in standby the base of Q101 is at zero so is the emittor. Q101 is tested again perfect. I took it out again. The TDA should be not working in standby but difficult to check. The only thing I can think of is that C102 is shorted at high voltage but checking with the MM gives it is ok.
So how to check the TDA further? Inserting a fuse blows the fuse. Perhaps disconnecting Q101 to make sure there is no conduction there? Than inserting the fuse and measuring if somehow the TDA is switched on in standby?
Or testing the other option that C102 is conducting at 325V? Seems unlikely to me and would cost me my last fuse I am afraid.
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Post by barclay66 on Mar 14, 2016 10:22:09 GMT -5
Hi, You can test with the SMPS without Q101 in order to see if both TDAs (they share the power supply) get their supply voltage. The set might go into protection though. If you override the protection, make sure that the heater voltage to the tubes is disconnected. Otherwise You will burn the tubes (no H-deflection). If You manage to get it working without Q101, check the output voltages at the other part of the SMPS (e.g. +17V, +12V, -9V etc.). If those measure ok, then this part of the SMPS is OK and we only have to worry about the HTHD part of the SMPS. There check D114, R101, D101, D111, R103, R109 Regards, barclay66 Edit: You might want to read the TDA4601 datasheet. It will give You more information on its working and where to expect specific votages/signals. See here: www.micropik.com/PDF/tda4601.pdf
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Post by radiohead314 on Mar 14, 2016 10:30:17 GMT -5
Ok I did a first test removing Q101 and removing C102. Inserted a new fuse and the fuse does not blow in standby! The voltage in standby on pin 9 of the TDA is 0,8V and that is the same as the good smps so there is not problem with the power to high activating the TDA in standby. Also there is 0V on the base island of Q101. So why does the fuse blow in standby? Is it the only option left that I see that C102 is breaking under 325V? I checked there is 325V on the island that normally the Q101 collector connects to. This test seems to exclude the other voltages blowing the fuse at least in standby? I checked the diodes and resistors but will check again.
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Post by radiohead314 on Mar 14, 2016 10:45:37 GMT -5
Ok it is not C102. I am also checking the possebility that the collector that is in the middle of the three legs somehow shorted to the heatsinc. Perhaps to much silver cooling pasta?
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Post by radiohead314 on Mar 14, 2016 11:18:42 GMT -5
I measured the components mentioned just to be sure. D114 ok R101 ok D101 ok D111 ok R103 ok R109 ok And I feel kind of stupid because in the picture it seems I made a spark gab? I think I have to find non conductive coolpasta first and be more careful with it? Untitled by Radio Head, on Flickr
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Post by barclay66 on Mar 14, 2016 11:18:55 GMT -5
Ok it is not C102. I am also checking the possebility that the collector that is in the middle of the three legs somehow shorted to the heatsinc. Perhaps to much silver cooling pasta? Well, that type of thermal conducting paste might work good for CPU coolers but not for a SMPS. Also, what You described as plastic sheet should be a glimmer sheet. The transistor must be completely isolated from the heat sink. Check that the glimmer sheet has no holes or cracks and use the regular white thermal conducting paste...
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Post by barclay66 on Mar 14, 2016 11:23:59 GMT -5
And I feel kind of stupid because in the picture it seems I made a spark gab? You will have to clean up this mess ASAP! This silver stuff is conductive and doesn't work for this application. When applying the new paste, only put a small blob onto the middle of each surface. It will be pressed into a (hopefully) thin layer what it is supposed to do. For this stuff the more isn't the better. Also make sure that You don't have any broken traces. The one around D111 looks quite damaged...
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Post by radiohead314 on Mar 14, 2016 11:43:08 GMT -5
Hi, You can test with the SMPS without Q101 in order to see if both TDAs (they share the power supply) get their supply voltage. The set might go into protection though. If you override the protection, make sure that the heater voltage to the tubes is disconnected. Otherwise You will burn the tubes (no H-deflection). If You manage to get it working without Q101, check the output voltages at the other part of the SMPS (e.g. +17V, +12V, -9V etc.). If those measure ok, then this part of the SMPS is OK and we only have to worry about the HTHD part of the SMPS. There check D114, R101, D101, D111, R103, R109 Regards, barclay66 Edit: You might want to read the TDA4601 datasheet. It will give You more information on its working and where to expect specific votages/signals. See here: www.micropik.com/PDF/tda4601.pdfOk you gave me some good ideas to test the smps without burning the tubes because what happened yesterday was close to a big disaster I put the set in standby with the new Q101. I noticed that next to the standby led the hthd led burned green on the subboard. That was not good and I should have stopped than. But I had to turn it on Now because the hthd that was max voltage I suspect was allready there there where no reasons for the system to hold down or go in protect. All voltages went green and I heare a spark. There was an image on the tubes but also vertical bright lines contrast was very low on my system luckily I also saw G2 being not there, retrace lines visible. So I switched off and thank God no tube burn. I replaced the smps. Switched on and again no G2 and vertical bars. I replaced the SMPS2 board too and while I put it in set was off I heared a crack again and now I found out both SMPS2 are bad. so if I test again I have to disconnect filament first but still the risk to blow the SMPS2 or horizontal. Well I have to repair one SMPS now and two SMPS2 boards. My guess is the cap on the horizontal was charged 325V and broke something on the HTHD line in SMPS2. Further testing i did only in standby with this SMPS and with the SMS2 and Horizontal removed.
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