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Post by tums on Sept 25, 2016 14:15:44 GMT -5
Hi everyone,
I changed my Sony 1292 for a Barco 1209/2. After trying to project 1080p on my 120" screen in different ways without succes, I finaly bought a Moome Barco FullHD card. (http://www.curtpalme.com/BARCO-FULLHD.shtm) I also had one in my Sony which made it plug and play.
So the setup is now:
Dune HD Smart B1 - (HDMI-HDMI) - Onkyo SR608 - (HDMI-HDMI) - (FullHD) Barco 1209/2
The picture is finaly Full HD, but it is dark. Crancking up the controls on the Barco and even on the Dune still got no satisfying picture.
I contacted Moome and he was very helpfull. The video signal in the Barco should be adjusted to 0.7V and the FulHD card should have a power of 0.88V op TP3. Checking the power on TP3 was no problem (is 0.882V), but I wasn't able to find the right measuring point in the Barco 1209/2.
Is there anyone who can point me in the right direction? All the manuals I find are for the 1209s, which is different from the 1209/2.
Greetings from Holland.
Bert
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Post by mastertech on Sept 25, 2016 20:24:17 GMT -5
How do the internal test patterns and menu look?
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Post by tums on Sept 26, 2016 17:50:40 GMT -5
Hello Mastertech, just checked it. The menu and internal testpatterns look as before I mounted the internal Moome card.  It doesn't make a different which option I use, all the internal images look fine. I hope the picture gives an impression of the situation. Wkr. Bert |
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Post by mastertech on Sept 26, 2016 20:30:33 GMT -5
Yes, the menu look good. So we can most likely rule out the tubes and most likely the neckboards. Does your menu have the "CRT Drive Mode" setting? Is yes, check to make sure it is not in "economic" setting. If at normal, try "temporary boost" to see if it helps at all.
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Post by Casethecorvetteman on Sept 27, 2016 8:04:13 GMT -5
Also try putting the port 3 card back in and see if its still dark, if so, check connections between the port 3 cart and switcher, also try resetting the gamma on the MOOME, if it is at zero the image will be dark. Read in the manual for the MOOME how to adjust it, there is a button to press to set it to maximum, and two arrow keys adjust the level.
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Post by Casethecorvetteman on Sept 27, 2016 8:06:38 GMT -5
On a Barco, if the H phase setting is too far off, itll be dark, and if the blanking is wide open it will brighten up when you adjust that.
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tums
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Post by tums on Sept 27, 2016 16:59:02 GMT -5
Thanks everyone for your input. I did some testing and here are the results: Found the CRT Drive Mode and it was set to Normal.  Selected Economic  Selected Boost  No big different, so on with checking the H-Phase  H-Phase is 50 and all the blankings were zero, setting them to max only makes my screen smaller  Back to my original situation: Dune HD Smart B1 - (HDMI-HDMI) - Onkyo SR608 - (HDMI-DVI) - PureLink HDFury 1 - (VGA) - Purelink GammaX - (VGA-SUB9) - (Port 3) Barco 1209/2 With this chain I can project fine in 1680x1050, but when I select 1080p I get a greenisch picture.  But it's not dark anymore. Placing it back to 1680x1050 gives me back a normal picture. It's still not what I was used to with my Sony 1292, but that's finetuning and calibrating.  Is it safe to say that the videochain inside the Barco 1902 is okay? If I look at the other prints inside and especially (what I think is) the RGB print all the potmeters are locked by red paint. It's a pitty I can't find the measuring point to check the video signal for 0.7Vtt. I tried other settings on the Moome card. I see some changes in the contrast of the picture, but I'm not able to crank up the brightness. Any other suggestions? |
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Post by mastertech on Sept 27, 2016 18:53:13 GMT -5
Who is telling you to check the video signal inside the barco for .7V?
Have you tried HDMI directly from your Dune to the Moome card?
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Post by Casethecorvetteman on Sept 28, 2016 2:08:30 GMT -5
You could try using the yellow cable that is on the port 3 card that goes to the switcher, the MOOME cable should be fine but worth a check.
The green image might be from the output being set to component instead of RGB, but its hard to say because ive never tried that here.
Have you tried completely deleting the stored settings on the Barco and starting setup from scratch?
Blanking will cut the image off if you go too far, the best way to set it is get the image so it is slightly off to the right within the raster when looking at the screen, move the raster so the image is centre of the tube face, then adjust blanking until it almost touches the edges of the image.
H-phase moves the image left to right within the raster.
What timings are you using for 1080p? If it is set to a reduced blanking setting, youll get a dark unstable image.
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Post by tums on Sept 28, 2016 17:47:21 GMT -5
Okay, time for some/my history lessons.
I bought a Barco 1209/2, because I wanted a brighter picture. I was projecting with a Sony 1292 with a internal moome card.
For the content I use a Dune HD Smart B1. Because the Barco is not a S version, I wanted to use Port 3. The Dune is connected to my Onkyo SR608 Reciever. The HDMI output goes thru a Purelink HDFury 1 and a GammaX on Port 3.
Dune HD Smart B1 - (HDMI-HDMI) - Onkyo SR608 - (HDMI-DVI) - PureLink HDFury 1 - (VGA) - Purelink GammaX - (VGA-SUB9) - (Port 3) Barco 1209/2
The HDFury 1 and GammaX have their own 5V power. The problem is, I can't get a good picture with HD content. I even build an inverter for the sync signals, but every combination fails, even on port 5. The highest resolution for me is now 1680x1050. This is not a 16:9 signal, so I forced the Dune to 16:9. At this resolution the picture has the right colours.
Selecting a HD signal will give me a very green picture which is off centre.
I read that changing the porch setting sometimes lets the Barco accept the signal better, but my knowledge of video is to small to know what to do. The only time Barco mentioned porch is adjusting the clamping of the signal in Picture Tuning. The problem is that in Picture Tuning I have no option for clamping op port 3 or 5.
Walking thru the menu of the projector I discovered that playing with the H Phase in Geometrie shifts the picture over my screen and at some values the green dissapears. I'm left with a red/blue picture. There is no settings to get the right colours (white text).
The Dune has the following resolutions:
1080p 60Hz
1080p 59.97Hz
1080p 50Hz
1080p 30 Hz
1080p 29.97Hz
1080p 25Hz
1080p 24Hz
1080p 23.976Hz
1080i 60Hz
1080i 59.94Hz
1080i 50Hz
720p 60Hz
720p 59.94Hz
720p 50Hz
Like I mentioned above, I've made an inverter for the H and V sync signals with a 7405.
I tried every resolution above with all possible settings. That means selecting a resolution, look at the picture, invert the H Sync signal, look again, invert the V Sync signal, look again, selecting an other resolution and start inverting again. There was no picture or a disturbed picture or a picture with to much green in it. I tried this on port 3 and on port 5. With the current hardware it seems not possible to get a right picture.
If I understand correctly: I need a scaler who shifts the image in the right (middle) postion and then the green(isch) picture will be gone. Is it possible to make a shifter like the inverter? Probably not, I didn't found a schematic after a quick search. And because of the price of a second hand Extron (starting at $50 with shipping) it's better to take an approved solution in the form of a Moome card.
On Internet I found a Pixel Magic Plasma Enhancer PE1000-Pro Video Processor/Scaler. I tried to change the porch settings of the video signal. Call it lack of knowledge, call it bad luck, but I was not succesfull. Because the Sony with a Moome card was Plug and Play, my wife gave me a Barco Moome card. Now that's love, or she was sick of my complains. Unfortunatly, with my Barco it's not plug and play. The picture is to dark.
I wrote Moome this mail:
I recently I bought a Barco FullHD for my 1209/02. The shipping of EE735320684TW went perfectly, I only had no time to place the card.
I have placed the card this week and the picture is sharp and stable. I use 1080P/60Hz from a Dune smart HD. The only problem is that the picture is dark.
I searched the internet and found that wrong settings of the Barco could be the problem, so I changed the sync signal from slow into fast. No changes in picture.
I also read that the H-Phase can also influence the brightness of the picture. In my case I could not improve the picture.
So I tried different inputs, different HDMI cables and different sources, but no combination gave me a bright and light picture.
Changing the resolution didn't work, in some cases the picture went darker.
So, I don't know anymore. I asume that the FullHD print is already calibrated, so I didn't adjust anything on the print.
Have you ever encounterd this problem? Do you know what the problem is? Do you have a solution for this dark picture.
I adjusted the setting of the barco for brightness and contrast above 70 and even turned up these values on the Dune media player. I can now somehow see something, but it's far from perfect.
Moome gave me this answer:
Dear Holland:
is any adjustment in BARCO for input level 0.7Vp-p or 1.0Vp-p.
if yes you need adjust to 0.7Vp-p.
and for BARCO FULLHD card, you can check TP3 voltage with a multifunction meter.
it should be calibrate at 0.88V
let me know if you have any question.
thanks
I bought the Barco from a "freak" who put enormous energy in adjusting this projector. Therefor I started with his resolution of 1600x900, adjusted the position of the barco relative to the screen and then tried to feed the Barco with a higher resolution. This is the reason why I didn't put the Barco back in to factory settings. Reading the reactions I think it's time to put all the settings back in the middle position.
This weekend and next week I'm abroad for my work, so everyone be patient. I will let you know what happens with the basic settings as soon as possible.
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Post by Casethecorvetteman on Sept 29, 2016 7:23:44 GMT -5
Delete all signal entries and start fresh, using the signal you intend to be the primary. This is standard practice for any CRT projector.
You cant expect to use a signal entry that was used for a completely different setup and have it work properly for you, because there will always be something different. Either way, you will still need to make adjustments to some settings, so you may as well start from scratch and set the whole projector up properly.
Also consider trying a different signal source that puts out 1920x1080p at the standard timings, because we know those timings do work perfectly fine with a MOOME internal Barco card. I use them on mine with no issues.
The HD Fury 1 is pretty much useless garbage for 1080p, and the GammaX is not required either. The internal MOOME absolutely smokes those two items. The problem with HD Fury products is they do not deliver their claimed specs, where as MOOME products generally do without any issues. MOOME also provides exceptional customer service and actually knows what he is talking about, the HD Fury team wouldnt know their arse from their elbow and it becomes obvious when you ask them for any form of help.
What is a Dune and what does it do?
First and foremost, get rid of that HD Fury garbage from your video chain, it does not have the bandwidth for 1920x1080p, get rid of the GammaX, because it wont do anything for you.
If you have a standard bluray player there set it to 1920x1080p at 60Hz and conect it to the MOOME, but first reset all settings to midpoint and delete all previous signal entries, then turn on the sourse device and set up from there. Once you do that, every other signal input will start using those settings you create for the 1920x1080p 60Hz input, and should only need minor adjustment from there.
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Post by mastertech on Sept 29, 2016 9:14:11 GMT -5
Moome gave me this answer: Dear Holland: is any adjustment in BARCO for input level 0.7Vp-p or 1.0Vp-p. if yes you need adjust to 0.7Vp-p. and for BARCO FULLHD card, you can check TP3 voltage with a multifunction meter. it should be calibrate at 0.88V let me know if you have any question. thanks I think what he meant was, see if there is a menu selection for 0.7Vp-p or 1.0Vp-p and if there is such a menu choice, make sure it is set for 0.7Vp-p. This is not something there is an adjustment for in any device, this is what the actual video signal should be. The 0.7Vp-p signal would be produced in the Moome card and sent out to your projector. And it would need to be checked with a scope. And yes, if it is low coming out of the moome then you would most likely have a dim picture. Now that doesn't mean that something in the barco could be affecting this signal but if you tested another source on this same port and it was ok then it would most likely eliminate the barco. |
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Post by tums on Sept 29, 2016 17:18:10 GMT -5
Hi Everyone, A Dune is a mediaplayer who plays almost everything. It even supports Blu-Ray Menu. dune-hd.com/eng/products/full_hd_media_players/14I'm using it for a while now. I used it also on the Sony IFB-FullHD card from Moome without any problems. The resolution I used and want to use again is 1920x1080 at 60Hz. I found some time this evening to reset all the blocks and put all the settings in the middle position. With the original setup the image is still green. Placed back the Moome card and checked the yellow cable, but found no problems. Unfortunatly the picture is still dark. I tried to find a setting for 0.7 - 1.0, but I found nothing. On the Sony I adjusted the videosignal with a scope to 0.7V, so I assumed Moome meant a physical adjustment inside the Barco |
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Post by Casethecorvetteman on Sept 30, 2016 1:36:09 GMT -5
What does it do if you set the Dune to a different resolution through the MOOME?
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Post by tums on Sept 30, 2016 5:35:23 GMT -5
I tried different settings on the Dune, from 1024x768, 720p and 1080p with different settings and the 1650x1050 settings I used with the Fury and Gammax.
I tried also Dune - Barco Moome Card, no changes. The picture stays dark.
So, without the Moome card, everything is fine (except the green picture on HD signals).
With the Moome card, every settings delivers a dark picture (luckily no green picture anymore).
Also another input of the Moome card makes no difference.
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