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Post by Casethecorvetteman on Jun 6, 2017 16:44:13 GMT -5
If the astig isnt perfect or close to it the electronic focus wont work too well.
Moving the projector any significant amount will mean astig will need attention.
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Post by ratty on Jun 7, 2017 4:26:02 GMT -5
Thanks for the tip Barclay, I will have to try that, I think the connectors should reach easily. Case, the CPC has the painting on it, so it should not have moved during transit. Now that you mention the word astigmatism though, I will have to check the electronic astig, I don't remember seeing it at all in the menus, and I did do a full reset after it was mounted. My other LC 808 should be arriving today evening, so I will soon have the chance to compare the colours on a HD-117-24 with the modded Onyx  On a slightly different note, is there a surefire method to set the projector perfectly perpendicular to the screen? I suspect I didn't manage to do that perfectly despite measuring all four corners of the PJ to the screen with string (string's slightly stretchy, no matter how much you're trying to watch out for it). |
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Post by ratty on Jun 8, 2017 13:07:23 GMT -5
Okay so second LC projector arrived yesterday. I spent the better half of today looking it through, powering it up, and now have tore down both it and my BG808s. I have ran into some unexpected factors however. 1. The BG808s had a weird thing where outside of the active image, small white flashes happened within the raster seemingly randomly. Apparently this phenomenon is present in this set as well! I think it may be related to the different way power is supplied to the projector? My Onyx doesn't have this issue, and the supply-filter board that is bolted to the side of the chassis is different, it even has it's own heatsink and dedicated little fan (I will dig up the part number eventually). So now the chase is on to get another of that board and see if that solves that issue! 2. How critical is a faint mask on the red tube as far as colour matching goes between two projectors? It is even and large, faint, but nevertheless there. I wouldn't give it a second thought to use this tube were it not for the fact I plan to blend. (How weird is it that it's the red tube that has a mask and both green and blue are perfectly pristine? What are the odds?  ) 3. Upon actual disassembly, it turns out the green tube is a PT18. What is the difference (if any) between this and a P16? Is colour reproduction different enough to make colour-matching a PITA? Will post pics and results in a bit. |
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Post by stridsvognen on Jun 8, 2017 13:41:26 GMT -5
I have been involved in calibrating a blend setup once, where it had different tubes, all same type, but a mix of rebuild and panasonic tubes, and that made it compleetly impossible to make a uniform blend.
Personally i would go with 2 new set of tubes for a blend, prefered from the same batch.
But its all up to your standards, and preferences to whats acceptable color uniformity.
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Post by ratty on Jun 8, 2017 16:22:53 GMT -5
That's what I feared. On to hunt for a new red P16, and either a PT18 or P16 green. The rest of my tubes are 10/10, no marks at all. I will actually only hunt for a red, possibly with an LC housing as well. It seems I may have found the only set of Barco bellows that are sweating. Wiped them clean, will see if it returns. Installed a bit of kitchen-towel under the assy to soak up anything while it's still on the floor. But if that weren't enough, my Graphics 808s is acting up. I transplanted the necessary sheet metal, the LC tube assemblies and the power supply to match filament voltage. (Btw one of Curt's earlier AVS posts talks about 05 and 06 power supplies for different filament voltages, stating 06 is higher filament voltage for Sony tubes. That is not true. My graphics 808s with Sony tubes has the 05 version not the 06, and the board has matching serial number so it's not been touched.)At first I got no power-up despite high voltage being present and a red LED on the powersupply. Big damn oops, managed to install one of the deflection coil connectors one pin off. Fixed that, and now it powers up, but the blue and green tubes go full-on from the start, with retrace lines if I leave it on long enough to reach that intensity. If I pull the RGB board, they don't come on, but it's not the board at fault as I replaced that with a known good one and the same thing happens. Red works, actually displays the Barco logo as it should. I tried also to replace the blue neckboard with a spare, but the result didn't change. My gut tells me I may have a missing voltage on the neckboards somehow, but I don't dare leave the set on long enough to start measuring things. Ideas anyone ?Dumb me was being dumb. Swapped the G2 supply board and everything immediately worked. Turns out there was in fact image previously as well, I just didn't let the tubes go bright enough to actually notice. What is odd is how the red tube's g2 was low enough to work proper. Lesson learned. And just to clarify. Filament voltage is apparently the same for the Sony tubes and Panasonics and generally P16s as well (as far as Barco was concerned anyways). I have multiple powersupplies here and with the same g2 board, all of them work at the same exact brightness, even the board that was factory fitted for the Sony tubes. Here's my victim. I got this sucker from Fragzero in Belgium, along with a truckload of spare parts:   Sidenote: Sony tubes are weird. Now that I actually pulled them, I can see why they would never fit an LC housing. I was considering milling out the housings of the worn out LC tubes I have here to fit the Sony's in there, but that is definitely not happening. It's like they were not made in a 4:3 ratio, but 1:1. For a blend setup, if these could be LC-d, that would be pretty good, would provide for more vertical resolution. Alas they cannot and they're rare enough that I don't want to experiment too much with them. The spare 808 will live the rest of it's life as a Data-Graphics AC hybrid once I'm done.  Anyways, my own 808 went on the bench and got the tubes pulled, along with the sheet metal that held the Sony AC tubeset. There was quite a bit of dust in there!    Then in went the sheet metal and tubes from the LC setup. Also did the same mod as with the Onyx, threaded the unused mounting holes to fit the tubes slightly further apart.     |
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Post by Casethecorvetteman on Jun 8, 2017 18:15:46 GMT -5
Thanks for the tip Barclay, I will have to try that, I think the connectors should reach easily. Case, the CPC has the painting on it, so it should not have moved during transit. Now that you mention the word astigmatism though, I will have to check the electronic astig, I don't remember seeing it at all in the menus, and I did do a full reset after it was mounted. My other LC 808 should be arriving today evening, so I will soon have the chance to compare the colours on a HD-117-24 with the modded Onyx On a slightly different note, is there a surefire method to set the projector perfectly perpendicular to the screen? I suspect I didn't manage to do that perfectly despite measuring all four corners of the PJ to the screen with string (string's slightly stretchy, no matter how much you're trying to watch out for it). Youre missing the point. If it is good enough for me to re-do astig after moving from bench to ceiling or one room to another, it is good enough for you to look into it after it moved geographical locations. The terrestrial magnetic field is what will be the effect on astig, painted or not. |
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Post by ratty on Jun 8, 2017 18:34:14 GMT -5
Okay, I definitely didn't think of that, though if the CPC is mis-dialed to the point of affecting dot-size, adjusting focus to either side of the sweet-spot would turn the dots oval or flared no?
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Post by Casethecorvetteman on Jun 9, 2017 3:51:21 GMT -5
Not always.
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Post by ratty on Jun 9, 2017 11:03:39 GMT -5
Progress is slow but steady. The newcomer came with a Cine8 1.11 software loaded. My Onyx had V 1.12. Is there software later than that? Anyways, read out all of my control board eproms for safekeeping, and re-burned the V1.11 with the 1.12 from the Onyx, then popped that into my 808s, which happily turned into a Cine8 as well! I was half worried it wouldn't work, as the control board part numbers are different, yet oddly enough the PCB number is identical bar what I believe to be a revision number. The two GAL chips on the board also have the same version number. The only thing that remains the same is the eprom containing the remote codes as I only have one new remote. Also installed the contrast modulation board which was recognized without any problem.
The only problem I have is the front IR receiver. For some reason if I aim the remote at the front IR, I not only get the RCU led flashing, but also the error led flashing on the control board! If anyone has an idea what may be causing this, let me know.
This is not a big problem though as my room is fairly small and the IR bounces around like mad, so the rear recieves the commands even if I point the remote at my screen.
If I had one more 27c801 eprom, I would turn the third PJ into a Cine8 as well. What an obscure eprom Barco chose...
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Post by ratty on Jun 9, 2017 16:30:13 GMT -5
BG808s--> Cine 8 Onyx  Conversion done, bar the lenses. However I have a new problem. As seen above, the unit was working perfectly fine. I was messing around with Iris, and started a full autopicture. The patterns started flashing, then suddenly everything went black. Unit has HV, you can hear the whine at startup, neckglow is present, G2 board diagnostic leds all on, including scan fail. No other red led lit. Tried pulling the convergence tray, result is the same. Replaced the G2 board, no joy. Since I have no other red led on I don't know which direction to look first. Anyone any tips ? |
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Post by km987654 on Jun 9, 2017 19:24:15 GMT -5
BG808s--> Cine 8 Onyx Conversion done, bar the lenses. However I have a new problem. As seen above, the unit was working perfectly fine. I was messing around with Iris, and started a full autopicture. The patterns started flashing, then suddenly everything went black. Unit has HV, you can hear the whine at startup, neckglow is present, G2 board diagnostic leds all on, including scan fail. No other red led lit. Tried pulling the convergence tray, result is the same. Replaced the G2 board, no joy. Since I have no other red led on I don't know which direction to look first. Anyone any tips ? Scan fail would mean no HV. The causes are a bad H or V Deflection board or bad EHT and/or Quad or splitter. Check the EHT for a red LED. Its not always easy to see but if you position yourself right and its on you will see it. If its on then you either have a bad EHT or Quad or both or perhaps a bad splitter. Re-seat all removable boards listed and try again. The other thing to look for is that all the cables to the deflection coils are in place. As you have been building this its possible one of those is not located properly. In terms of the G2 board are you using a G2 board for Sony tubes ie the one that has the HV block on the back of it? |
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Post by ratty on Jun 10, 2017 0:43:14 GMT -5
Scan fail would mean no HV. The causes are a bad H or V Deflection board or bad EHT and/or Quad or splitter. Check the EHT for a red LED. Its not always easy to see but if you position yourself right and its on you will see it. If its on then you either have a bad EHT or Quad or both or perhaps a bad splitter. Re-seat all removable boards listed and try again. The other thing to look for is that all the cables to the deflection coils are in place. As you have been building this its possible one of those is not located properly. In terms of the G2 board are you using a G2 board for Sony tubes ie the one that has the HV block on the back of it? That's strange because I can definitely hear the short, high-pitched whine that accompanies the startup of HV, yet the scan-fail led comes on pretty much at the same time as all the other green leds. I already reseated all the boards. I had misplaced one of the deflection connectors earlier, but that was already fixed. The PJ was working when suddenly the scan-fail came on with no snap, no crackle and no pop. It was as if someone just pushed the pause button on the remote. The g2 board does have a HV block on it, but both the panasonic and the Sony tubed projectors use the same board, only the HV block is not used, just has rubber caps on the connectors when it's not using the Sony tubes. Despite that I am using the board that came with the Panasonic tubes simply because I didn't have to touch g2 this way, but I already tried installing one of the spare g2 boards and the result is the same. I will have a second look, but the HV fail led was not on last night, only the scan-fail! |
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Post by km987654 on Jun 10, 2017 0:57:41 GMT -5
Scan fail would mean no HV. The causes are a bad H or V Deflection board or bad EHT and/or Quad or splitter. Check the EHT for a red LED. Its not always easy to see but if you position yourself right and its on you will see it. If its on then you either have a bad EHT or Quad or both or perhaps a bad splitter. Re-seat all removable boards listed and try again. The other thing to look for is that all the cables to the deflection coils are in place. As you have been building this its possible one of those is not located properly. In terms of the G2 board are you using a G2 board for Sony tubes ie the one that has the HV block on the back of it? That's strange because I can definitely hear the short, high-pitched whine that accompanies the startup of HV, yet the scan-fail led comes on pretty much at the same time as all the other green leds. I already reseated all the boards. I had misplaced one of the deflection connectors earlier, but that was already fixed. The PJ was working when suddenly the scan-fail came on with no snap, no crackle and no pop. It was as if someone just pushed the pause button on the remote. The g2 board does have a HV block on it, but both the panasonic and the Sony tubed projectors use the same board, only the HV block is not used, just has rubber caps on the connectors when it's not using the Sony tubes. Despite that I am using the board that came with the Panasonic tubes simply because I didn't have to touch g2 this way, but I already tried installing one of the spare g2 boards and the result is the same. I will have a second look, but the HV fail led was not on last night, only the scan-fail! The HV may well start up which is what you hear and then shut down when scan fail comes into play which would only take a second or two. You really have to look through a hole on top of the EHT board and move side to side to to see the EHT red LED. If you have a scan fail LED on the G2 board then HV has already shut down to protect the tubes. |
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Post by ratty on Jun 10, 2017 1:07:52 GMT -5
Is it not visible when looking through the rear grille? That is what I've been trying and could see no lit led, but I will try your method too. I will also try unplugging the tubes one by one from the HV, I've read that a shorted tube will also cause this problem, and the red is a high hour tube even though there's barely any mask on it (the g2 needs to be high compared to the others to light it up).
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Post by ratty on Jun 10, 2017 4:42:36 GMT -5
Okay problem found. The HV led was indeed off, so the problem wasn't in the HV circuit. Despite that I did try unplugging tube after tube, but no dice. Tried moving the scan switches, thinking one might have a contact fault, but nothing. Ultimately I ended up swapping board after board with known working ones. Turns out this problem was completely unrelated to the rebuild, I guess it was just time for the vertical board to go the way of the dodo. What is strange is that the no-sync led that is on the vertical board behaves normally, but for some reason still triggers the scan-fail circuit. Might be a fault on the output side, maybe a shorted transistor or something? Later on I will try looking at it to see if I can locate the fault. Lucky I have a bunch of riser boards so I can test boards in-circuit Also lucky I got a bunch of spare boards with the set I bought for the tubes! I have two spares, both working, though one I also put in the 'to look at later' pile, as whenever the picture/sync changes, as it locks sync, for a second the vertical linearity jumps around a bit, as if it was just barely catching the sync signal. |
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